holy fuck, huffpo is pro fracking.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by I invented that, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. I invented that

    I invented that VIP Extreme Gold

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  2. Bro

    Bro I Rule Gold

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    Hate to tell you but the gas that comes out of the faucet does catch on fire. It's still safe to drink they say. Just let the water sit for a while until the gas dissipates out.

    Everything is fine. Don't panic that the faucet water is contaminated with methane gas.

    [​IMG]

    [video=youtube;U01EK76Sy4A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U01EK76Sy4A[/video]
  3. Bosch76

    Bosch76 Well-Known Member VIP

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  4. I invented that

    I invented that VIP Extreme Gold

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    nice image but it wasn't caused by fracking.
    http://news.heartland.org/newspaper...and-producer-misled-viewers-lighted-tap-water
  5. I invented that

    I invented that VIP Extreme Gold

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    all huffpo is nothing but opinion pieces.
  6. Bro

    Bro I Rule Gold

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    That was just the first video I found. I didn't realize that people have been lighting their faucet water on fire since the 30's.


    I guess it's all BS.
    [video=youtube;4LBjSXWQRV8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LBjSXWQRV8[/video]

    [video=youtube;dEB_Wwe-uBM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEB_Wwe-uBM[/video]


    And Global warming is fake also.

    http://news.heartland.org/climate-change-weekly
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
  7. Bro

    Bro I Rule Gold

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    Oh and Alyssa Carducci doesn't have an agenda at all.

    The heartland Institute.

    The mission of the Heartland Institute is to discover, develop, and promote free-market solutions to social and economic problems.

    Heartland Sites
    Climate Change Reconsidered
    Climate Conferences
    ClimateWiki
    Emerging Issues Forum
    Fakegate (Peter Gleick)
    Heartlander Digital Magazine
    Parent Trigger
    Reform Medicaid
    Somewhat Reasonable
    Tea Party Toolbox


    :jj: Nice source.

    She's also against biofuels. http://news.heartland.org/newspaper...-warn-against-using-invasive-species-biofuels.

    Free market solutions as long as natural gas and oil keep their monopoly.
  8. I invented that

    I invented that VIP Extreme Gold

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    I was in a hurry, I'll get you a better source.
  9. HeinousMark

    HeinousMark Creepy-Ass Cracka VIP

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  10. SiriusDawg

    SiriusDawg New Member

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    I am not sure what the uproar is about....judging by the lack of comments to the story AND what is found in the comments....few are really taking this issue with much force.

    I didn't even know about it until my favorite douchebag here posted it so I appreciate him keeping me up-to-date with the latest liberal news
  11. mattyfishrip197

    mattyfishrip197 Well-Known Member VIP

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    i think it is safe to say fracking will poison the water table and causes cancer

    i think for a poor community the question is

    is being well off a good trade off to slowly killing your community......



    take the money and poison your community has been the american way for a long time.......
  12. I invented that

    I invented that VIP Extreme Gold

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    It's an iconic image, captured in the 2010 Academy Award—nominated documentary GasLand. A Colorado man holds a flame to his kitchen faucet and turns on the water. The pipes rattle and hiss, and suddenly a ball of fire erupts. It appears a damning indictment of the gas drilling nearby. But Colorado officials determined the gas wells weren't to blame; instead, the homeowner's own water well had been drilled into a naturally occurring pocket of methane
  13. Bro

    Bro I Rule Gold

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    You left out the other half of the paragraph:

    It's an iconic image, captured in the 2010 Academy Award—nominated documentary GasLand. A Colorado man holds a flame to his kitchen faucet and turns on the water. The pipes rattle and hiss, and suddenly a ball of fire erupts. It appears a damning indictment of the gas drilling nearby. But Colorado officials determined the gas wells weren't to blame; instead, the homeowner's own water well had been drilled into a naturally occurring pocket of methane. Nonetheless, up to 50 layers of natural gas can occur between the surface and deep shale formations, and methane from these shallow deposits has intruded on groundwater near fracking sites. In May, Pennsylvania officials fined Chesapeake Energy $1 million for contaminating the water supplies of 16 families in Bradford County. Because the company had not properly cemented its boreholes, gas migrated up along the outside of the well, between the rock and steel casing, into aquifers. The problem can be corrected by using stronger cement and processing casings to create a better bond, ensuring an impermeable seal.
    So Fracking CAN AND DOES contaminate ground water. Thanks for playing. :c



    Claim No. 4
    "[THERE'S] NEVER BEEN ONE CASE—DOCUMENTED CASE—OF GROUNDWATER CONTAMINATION IN THE HISTORY OF THE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF HYDRAULIC FRACTURING [WELLS]"

    SEN. JAMES INHOFE, R-OKLA., APRIL 2011

    The senator is incorrect. In the past two years alone, a series of surface spills, including two blowouts at wells operated by Chesapeake Energy and EOG Resources and a spill of 8000 gallons of fracking fluid at a site in Dimock, Pa., have contaminated groundwater in the Marcellus Shale region. But the idea stressed by fracking critics that deep-injected fluids will migrate into groundwater is mostly false. Basic geology prevents such contamination from starting below ground. A fracture caused by the drilling process would have to extend through the several thousand feet of rock that separate deep shale gas deposits from freshwater aquifers. According to geologist Gary Lash of the State University of New York at Fredonia, the intervening layers of rock have distinct mechanical properties that would prevent the fissures from expanding a mile or more toward the surface. It would be like stacking a dozen bricks on top of each other, he says, and expecting a crack in the bottom brick to extend all the way to the top one. What's more, the fracking fluid itself, thickened with additives, is too dense to ascend upward through such a channel. EPA officials are closely watching one place for evidence otherwise: tiny Pavillion, Wyo., a remote town of 160 where high levels of chemicals linked to fracking have been found in groundwater supplies. Pavillion's aquifer sits several hundred feet above the gas cache, far closer than aquifers atop other gas fields. If the investigation documents the first case of fracking fluid seeping into groundwater directly from gas wells, drillers may be forced to abandon shallow deposits —which wouldn't affect Marcellus wells.
    More contaminated Ground water? You don't say.


    Claim No. 5
    "THE GAS ERA IS COMING, AND THE LANDSCAPE NORTH AND WEST OF [NEW YORK CITY] WILL INEVITABLY BE TRANSFORMED AS A RESULT. WHEN THE VALVES START OPENING NEXT YEAR, A LOT OF POOR FARM FOLK MAY BECOME TEXAS RICH. AND A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE—ESPECIALLY THE ECOSENSITIVE NEW YORK CITY CROWD THAT HAS SETTLED AMONG THEM—WILL BE APOPLECTIC AS THEIR PRISTINE WEEKEND SANCTUARY IS CONVERTED INTO AN INDUSTRIAL ZONE, CRISSCROSSED WITH DRILL PADS, PIPELINES, AND ACCESS ROADS."

    New York magazine, Sept. 21, 2008

    Much of the political opposition to fracking has focused on the Catskill region, headwaters of the Delaware River and the source of most of New York City's drinking water. But the expected boom never happened—there's not enough gas in the watershed to make drilling worthwhile. "No one has to get excited about contaminated New York City drinking water," Penn State's Engelder told the Times Herald-Record of Middletown, N.Y., in April. The shale is so close to the surface that it's not concentrated in large enough quantities to make recovering it economically feasible. But just to the west, natural gas development is dramatically changing the landscape. Drilling rigs are running around the clock in western Pennsylvania. Though buoyed by the economic windfall, residents fear that regulators can't keep up with the pace of development. "It's going to be hard to freeze-frame and say, 'Let's slow down,'?" Sen. Robert P. Casey Jr., D-Pa., said last fall. "That makes it more difficult for folks like us, who say we want to create the jobs and opportunity in the new industry, but we don't want to do it at the expense of water quality and quality of life."
    So New Yorkers shouldn't fear because the industry MAY abandon shallow shale reserves? :c


    Claim No. 9
    "CLAIMING THAT THE INFORMATION IS PROPRIETARY, DRILLING COMPANIES HAVE STILL NOT COME OUT AND FULLY DISCLOSED WHAT FRACKING FLUID IS MADE OF."

    Vanity Fair, June 2010

    Under mounting pressure, companies such as Schlumberger and Range Resources have posted the chemical compounds used in some of their wells, and in June, Texas became the first state to pass a law requiring full public disclosure. This greater transparency has revealed some oddly benign ingredients, such as instant coffee and walnut shells—but also some known and suspected carcinogens, including benzene and methanol. Even if these chemicals can be found under kitchen sinks, as industry points out, they're poured down wells in much greater volumes: about 5000 gallons of additives for every 1 million gallons of water and sand. A more pressing question is what to do with this fluid once it rises back to the surface. In Texas's Barnett Shale, wastewater can be reinjected into impermeable rock 1.5 miles below ground. This isn't feasible in the Marcellus Shale region; the underlying rocks are not porous enough. Currently, a handful of facilities in Pennsylvania are approved to treat the wastewater. More plants, purpose-built for the task, are planned. In the meantime, most companies now recycle this water to drill their next well.

    This last section confuses me. In Texas they dispose of waste fracking fluids by pumping them deep under ground, but in Penn they recycle it to use in other wells until enough waste disposal plants are available? Wouldn't it be cheaper to recycle? It doesn't make sense.

    Claim 4 and claim 5 contradict each other. Claim 4 states that the industry may have to abandon shallow shale deposits because of water contamination and claim 5 says NY doesn't have to worry because the shale is too shallow to extract a feasable amount of gas.
  14. I invented that

    I invented that VIP Extreme Gold

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    my only point was that the video of tap water on fire wasn't caused by fracking. thanks for playing.
  15. Bro

    Bro I Rule Gold

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    Just that one video or all the videos showing tap water catching on fire?
  16. I invented that

    I invented that VIP Extreme Gold

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    the video clip you posted of flaming tap water from the gasland documentary was proved not to have been caused by fracking. i'm not aware of any verified videos showing flaming water caused by fracking. i'm not saying it's not possible, just saying the video in gasland was bullshit.
  17. Bro

    Bro I Rule Gold

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    Gasland: (from wiki) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasland

    Negative <remarks of the movie>
    Energy in Depth (EiD), launched by the Independent Petroleum Association of America,[19] has created a web page with a list of claimed factual inaccuracies in the documentary,[20] and produced an associated film titled TruthLand. In response to the EID's list of claimed factual inaccuracies, the Gasland website offers a rebuttal. [21] Ann McElhinney and Phelim McAleer have achieved some notice with the claim that Fox was knowingly hiding relevant information. They are creating a film in response called FrackNation,[22] a clip from which appears at the end of TruthLand.

    In a blog-post for Forbes magazine, Dr. Michael Economides, an oil and gas industry analyst and Chairman of the Board of XGAS, a natural gas firm, commented on the Gasland scene of "a man lighting his faucet water on fire and making the ridiculous claim that natural gas drilling is responsible for the incident. The clip, though attention-getting, is wildly inaccurate and irresponsible. To begin with, the vertical depth separation between drinking water aquifers and reservoir targets for gas production is several thousand feet of impermeable rock. Any interchange between the two, if it were possible, would have happened already in geologic time, measured in tens of millions of years, not in recent history."[23] Economides claims that almost any "gas leak" from sources within and around a home has the potential to produce flammable tap water.[citation needed] A 2011 study by Duke University concluded however that leakage from the cement seal of a borehole passing through an aquifer is the most likely cause of such incidents


    Gasland rebuttal
    http://1trickpony.cachefly.net/gas/pdf/Affirming_Gasland_Sept_2010.pdf (Page 8)

    On FLAMMABLE TAP WATER and Its CAUSES

    Josh Fox:
    www.gaslandthemovie.com

    I am taking this point out of order because it is so important to the film I want to address it near the
    beginning of this document:

    E-I-D claims:
    Mike Markham in Gasland]: Fox blames flammable faucet in Fort Lupton, Colo. on natural gas
    development. But that’s not true according to the Colorado Oil & Gas Conservation Commission
    (COGCC). “Dissolved methane in well water appears to be biogenic [naturally occurring] in
    origin. … There are no indications of oil & gas related impacts to water well.†(complaint resolved
    9/30/08, signed by John Axelson of COGCC)

    JOSH:
    Biogenic gas can migrate as a result of gas drilling. And hiding behind “biogenic†gas
    classification is yet another common industry obfuscation tactic.
    E-I-D asserts that the gas that Mike Markham lights at his tap was classified as “biogenic†by the
    Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, so therefore the problem cannot be attributed to
    drilling. This is a very misleading assertion, and it is false in several ways.
    A distinction is being made here between “biogenic†and “thermogenic†natural gas. “Biogenic†gas
    is created by decomposing organic material, and is found in pockets close to the surface.
    “Thermogenic†natural gas is created by intense pressure in underground rock formations and can
    come only from deeper layers (including shale, which are targeted by fracking). The different types
    of gas can be identified by isotopic tests that “fingerprint†the gas. However, gas fingerprinting
    simply identifies the gas. It does not identify the migratory pathway of the gas — a key omission.
    Just because Mike Markham’s gas is “biogenic†doesn’t mean that its migration into water supplies
    was not caused by drilling.
    I asked Dr. Anthony Ingraffea, the D. C. Baum Professor of Engineering at Cornell University,
    whose research for more than 30 years has involved structural mechanics, finite element methods,
    and fracture mechanics: "Can drilling and/or hydraulic fracturing liberate biogenic natural gas
    into a fresh water aquifer?"
    His reply: "Yes, definitely. The drilling process itself can induce migration of biogenic gas by
    disturbance of previously blocked migration paths through joint sets or faults, or by puncturing
    pressurized biogenic gas pockets and allowing migration through an as-yet un-cemented annulus, or
    though a faulty cement job. The hydraulic fracturing process is less likely to cause migration of
    biogenic gas; however, the cumulative effect of many, closely spaced, relatively shallow laterals,
    each fracked (and possibly re-fracked) numerous times, could very well create rock mass
    disturbances that could, as noted above, open previously blocked migration paths through joint sets
    or faults."
    So, just because the COGCC labeled the gas "biogenic" doesn’t mean that they actually looked into
    how it got there. As Professor Ingraffea states above, there are several ways that drilling and
    fracking can cause biogenic natural gas to migrate into aquifers. COGCC did not conduct a hydrogeologic
    study to determine the migratory pathways of the gas into the water supply — despite
    citizens' conviction that the problems with their water happened after fracking occurred nearby.

    ___________________________

    In short, the COGCC didn't prove the video is NOT from fracking. In fact, it probably was. Nice try though.



    Here's a longer version of the video I posted above:
    [video=youtube;g5QqidiEEHw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5QqidiEEHw[/video]
  18. I invented that

    I invented that VIP Extreme Gold

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    you have it backwards, it must be proved true. there were documented cases of this happening in the 1930's before fracking. the incident in the video from gasland was caused because the homeowner's own water well had been drilled into a naturally occurring pocket of methane.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  19. Bro

    Bro I Rule Gold

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    Did you read the rebuttal? COGCC did not conduct a hydrogeologic study to determine the migratory pathways of the gas into the water supply. So therefore you are wrong. It was most likely caused by fracking.

    Even with the evidence in front of you, you still claim it was a natural pocket of methane. :jj:

    With your logic, just because it can occur naturally, this dismisses any and all occurrences of tap water catching on fire as natural. :jj: :unuts:
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  20. I invented that

    I invented that VIP Extreme Gold

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    "The hydraulic fracturing process is less likely to cause migration of
    biogenic gas; however, the cumulative effect of many, closely spaced, relatively shallow laterals,
    each fracked (and possibly re-fracked) numerous times, could very well create rock mass
    disturbances that could, as noted above, open previously blocked migration paths through joint sets
    or faults."

    the word "could" is very vague, face it bro the guy was trying to protect the integrity of his film so he gets a scientist to say it's possible that's no proof.

    Josh Fox has made a documentary that makes some pretty alarming claims about gas drilling across the US. But as is often the case when these claims are examined they do not stand up to scrutiny. Fox’ documentary Gasland, claims that fracking, a way of drilling for natural gas, has polluted water and endangered lives. One of the most alarming scenes is when he lights water that residents claim has been polluted by fracking. It is dramatic and at first glance seems like a slam dunk. I mean they can light their water – it is polluted and there is gas drilling nearby. It must be responsible.

    But then a little digging reveals a few inconvenient facts. A 1976 study by the Colorado Division of Water found that this area was plagued with gas in the water problems back then. And it was naturally occurring.
    As the report stated there was “troublesome amounts of methane” in the water decades before fracking began. It seems that in geographical areas gas has always been in the water.
    But Josh Fox knew this and chose not to put it in Gasland.

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