50th Anniversary - US Marines Land in Vietnam

Discussion in 'The Howard Stern Show' started by Beffquus, Mar 1, 2015.

  1. Beffquus

    Beffquus Scripta sunt in stellis Gold

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    Regardless of what you think of this war, it is worth remembering that it's always the young who bear the heaviest cost of the decisions the "best & the brightest" make. Today marks the 50th anniversary of the wheels being set in motion for escalated US involvement. Prior to 1965, 416 Americans were killed in action. From 1965-1975 - 57,800.

    Howard-related because we have all heard about his "VC ear necklace" a million times.

    1 March - Ambassador Taylor met with generals Nguyen Van Thieu and Tran Van Minh in Saigon to request permission for the assignment of the Marines to Danang airbase. The generals raised no objections but asked that the Marines arrive "in the most inconspicuous way feasible."
    8 March - Two battalions of U.S. Marines began to land on beaches near Danang. The arrival of the Marines heralded the direct involvement of American combat units in the Vietnam War. The Marines had the responsibility of guarding the Danang airbase but were ordered to "not, repeat not, engage in day-to-day actions against the Viet Cong." By the end of March the Marines at Danang numbered almost 5,000.

    The "beach" pictures below are from the initial landing. The others are from around Danang in in the summer of 1965.

    Howard- Newspaper headline.png 19marineslanddanang.jpg DaNangLanding002.jpg associated-press-vietnam-war-us-da-nang-landing.jpg Marines land at Danang March 8 1965.png girls_danang landing 1965.jpg danang2afterdinnerspecialcoming.jpg soldiers-pray-with-army-chaplain-vietnam.jpg marines-arrive-at-da-nang.jpg
    A young private waits on the beach during the Marine landing at Da Nang, Vietnam, August 3, 1965.jpg
    This last one haunts me. Did this young man make it home?
     
  2. Nemo

    Nemo Beer Can Thick Gold

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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. MrWarmth

    MrWarmth ADORABLE DEPLORABLE Gold

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    We haven't learned a damned thing since.
     
  4. Nemo

    Nemo Beer Can Thick Gold

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    exactly
     
  5. Howards Wig

    Howards Wig Well-Known Member

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    Well if he did, he damn sure did not come back the same person.

    Unbelievable you can go from the neutrality act and WW II, to this in 20 short years. Pretty much the turning point of the government serving different interests than the people of the US.
     
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  6. babybear

    babybear r.i.p 8/3/15, Wherewolf of AZ VIP

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    props to my uncle now retired in Georgia.
    50-53 Korea
    stateside till 70,then off to Vietnam for a year.
    had 3 kids and wife pregnant at the time.
     
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  7. newcastlefan

    newcastlefan גֵּרְשֹׁם VIP

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    I think we have, but i dont think its the lesson most people understand: everyplace we war with and lose we then develop economic relations with. These economic ties have so far prevented future wars with them. e.g VietNam produces material goods for us in exchange for dollars that improve their general standard of living. Nobody else offered them that and now they would rather overcharge us than shoot at us. China is not really interested in fighting us because everything they want from us they can buy cheap. We didn't develop economic ties with Cuba after the Bay of Pigs incident and the general standard of living there has decayed and remained decayed for 50 years. Everyone we lose to improves afterward because they become one of our vendors and customers. This is a much more positive way to win a war long term.
     
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  8. newcastlefan

    newcastlefan גֵּרְשֹׁם VIP

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    but i still think Washington completely fucked up by not allowing us to win in 'Nam. We could have easily but Washington refused to allow us to take the war to their govt. We had the means and ease with which to carpet bomb Hanoi into the sea and they had no ability to prevent or retailiate, but we were specifically enjoined from doing so.
     
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  9. MrWarmth

    MrWarmth ADORABLE DEPLORABLE Gold

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    Oh good. Then the 58,000 didn't die in vain
     
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  10. Beffquus

    Beffquus Scripta sunt in stellis Gold

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    Still the best explanation of how we go started down that road...
     
  11. Howards Wig

    Howards Wig Well-Known Member

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    I could not disagree with you more. The reality is, war was used as a way to accumulate wealth. However, things have changed so you can now accumulate wealth without the unnecessary hassle of running a country. China *has* won the war with the US, because they own us financially. They have taken over our manufacturing, are generating huge wealth as a country while devaluing their currency to keep this going, and are building an epic war machine because, well, it may come in handy one day.

    I would also like to hear how you think we have learned, when we have entered into a religious war with a group that out numbers us 10:1. A pointless war, costing trillions, that will never end...

    I can appreciate your bubbly honesty (and I ain't fucking with you :), but things are more fucked up than ever, and we have no control over it at this point. Hell, we have even accepted that pensions are too costly, while we have corporations making epic profits and the rich getting richer. Time for a real revolution (and not the fake Wiggy version).
     
  12. newcastlefan

    newcastlefan גֵּרְשֹׁם VIP

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    didn't say that. i disagree with the policies but i think i understand the pattern: politicians have no stomach for or understanding of the purpose of war, so they fail at it. its like playing full contact football but being a devote pacifist: you can't have it both ways and expect to excel at both. Our presidents want to express the country's sense of moral outrage or thirst for revenge and go to war (e.g. Bush in 911), but since they are basically inexperienced managers and cowards they cannot fight or strategize worth a damn. Then after they fuck it all up, since we withdraw and effectively lose despite overwhelming military superiority, it becomes an opportunity for the merchant class to salvage the situation long term.
     
  13. newcastlefan

    newcastlefan גֵּרְשֹׁם VIP

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    because its a really simple and obvious explanation. all my friends (that survived) told me the same thing when they returned. One even made it to Army colonel (maybe brig general by now), and admits that VN (when he entered the Army) was a total fuck up.
     
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  14. newcastlefan

    newcastlefan גֵּרְשֹׁם VIP

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    Japan owned us too, and look at them now. There is more to it than simply accumulating wealth. You have to make it work for you as well. We do; they do not. I don't believe Obama learned the lesson, but i think there are many in the career politics and military that do. Just because one asshole is pres does not mean we did not learn. I have money bet (i.e. invested) that as soon as things calm down in the middle east we accelerate their economic rebirth.

    You view corporations as evil; i see them as evil too but since govts (like ours, England, France, Russia, etc.) are inept, i see them as the only current force for global stability since no one wants a war less than a corporation: no one invests when countries are at war - they keep the money in fixed income instruments. in times of non-war the money is redirected to equities which fund business growth. All our major corporations are multinational now and have significant interests in keeping things calm. They are (unfortunately) our current best hope for no all out wars.
     
  15. Howards Wig

    Howards Wig Well-Known Member

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    Japan never owned our manufacturing the way China does. China holds 1.2 Trillion in US debt last time I checked, which does not include the money we are driving out of the country. I am no fan of Obama, but do not think he is in charge (just like Bush was not in charge). As for the middle east, it has been decimated, theocracies rule, and fortunes are being made but you need to pay the right people. If you think you are getting in there via the stock market, you are mistaken.

    Well, other than those corporations that profit from war (and there are a lot of them). Corporations can be inept and profitable.
    Anyway peace to you, and to those kids who were betrayed by their country and shipped off to Vietnam.
     
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  16. Shortwave98

    Shortwave98 A-Number 1 Banned User

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    I had two uncles in Korea, my mom's brothers. They both made it back. One died three years ago and I had to take her down for the funeral.
     
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  17. Gunky McShekelstein

    Gunky McShekelstein Well-Known Member

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    I have much respect for the people that serve in the armed forces. The vast majority of them are there because they want to protect their country and it's ideals. If you're gonna hate or blame anyone, hate or blame the people in control. They're the ones that utilize the armed forces and tell/put them where they want them to go.
     
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  18. BethsZygote

    BethsZygote In Utero VIP

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    I would like to thank Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, Rudy Giuliani, Donald Trump, Karl Rove, Saxby Chambliss, Paul Wolfowitz, and Dick Cheney for their service!
     
  19. N Copter

    N Copter Shot Dead Banned User

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    Wrong war, wrong place, wrong time, wrong enemy.

    How could the Johnson administration put 500,000 ground troops in that shitty country to fight a defensive war both politically and militarily. If they were going to go all in like that they should have really gone all and taken out the North. If that wasn't going to happen then the level of commitment shouldn't have been 1/20th the size.
     
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  20. Beffquus

    Beffquus Scripta sunt in stellis Gold

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    It's generally the people in control who really are the ones you need to question and possibly hold in contempt. For a good explanation of what happened during the critical period of the buildup in Vietnam (early 1965), read "Dereliction of Duty" by H.R. McMaster (West Point grad, veteran of the Gulf War). I'm just about at the end of it right now and the striking thing is how people who knew better kept quiet because it was expedient to do so. Then, 30-40 years later, they are full of regret for not having spoken up when they had the chance to deflect the course of history (talking about people in authority - like the Joint Chiefs of Staff and other national security advisers) - really turns your stomach.
     
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