Hey, GHP. I took the 5 minutes tonight to find it. Now what you got to say?

Discussion in 'The Bar' started by Daveindiego, Jul 22, 2012.

  1. Daveindiego

    Daveindiego Confirmed Internet Legend Gold

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    Looks like Thomas Jefferson thought the Constitution was NOT written in stone. :dance:




    http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/column/article_9b9336d1-4c91-5688-ae5d-da87ca0a5af6.html
    Joseph J. Ellis: Constitution untouchable? Not in Jefferson’s world
    May 11, 2010 4:30 am • Joseph J. Ellis | Mount Holyoke history professor and Pulitzer Prize winner


    Now that Solicitor General Elena Kagan has been nominated for the U.S. Supreme Court by President Obama, it is clear that the Senate Judiciary Committee hearings will be the major political event of the summer.

    These hearings have become highly partisan affairs over the past 30 years, and given the recent closed-ranks posture of the Republican opposition, we can expect all the sharp-edged political weapons to be deployed against the nominee. The chief weapon will be the claim that Supreme Court justices should interpret the Constitution as it was written, not impose their political or personal convictions on the semi-sacred text. Woe to the nominee who has left a paper trail that deviates from the original intentions of the Founders, or what a hostile Senate interrogator defines those intentions to be.

    Yet the constitutional doctrine of original intent has always struck most historians of the founding era as rather bizarre. For they, more than most, know that the original framers of the Constitution harbored deep disagreements over the document’s core provisions, and that the debates in the state ratifying conventions further exposed the divisions of opinion on such seminal issues as federal vs. state jurisdiction, the powers of the executive branch, even whether there was -- or should be -- an ultimate arbiter of the purposefully ambiguous language of the document.

    Moreover, several of the most prominent Founders changed their minds in the ensuing years. Perhaps the most dramatic example is James Madison, often called “the father of the Constitution.†During the debates in Philadelphia, Madison was one of the most ardent advocates for federal sovereignty, going so far as to propose a federal veto over all state legislation. But slightly more than a decade later, he authored the Virginia Resolutions, the classic case for state sovereignty over all domestic policy, and later, much to his chagrin, the major reference in South Carolina’s secessionist claims during the nullification crisis.

    The doctrine of original intent rests on a set of implicit assumptions about the framers as a breed apart, momentarily allowed access to a set of timeless and transcendent truths. The doctrine requires you to believe that the “miracle at Philadelphia†was a uniquely omniscient occasion when 55 mere mortals were permitted a glimpse of the eternal verities and then embalmed their insights in the document.

    Any professional historian proposing such an interpretation today would be laughed off the stage. That four sitting justices on the Supreme Court -- Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, John Roberts and Samuel Alito -- claim to believe in it, or some version of it, is truly strange. We might call it the immaculate conception theory of jurisprudence. Even more disconcerting is the fact that the very justices most disposed toward wrapping their opinions in the protective armor of original intent have consistently voted in support of the conservative political agenda championed by the Republican Party.

    If we were to put the doctrine of original intent on trial, the most eloquent witness for the prosecution would be Thomas Jefferson. Here is what he wrote to a friend in 1816:

    “Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence, and deem them like the arc of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did beyond amendment. ... Let us follow no such examples, nor weakly believe that one generation is not as capable of taking care of itself, and of ordering its own affairs ... Each generation is as independent of the one preceding, as that was of all which had gone before.â€

    He was telling us, in his own lyrical way, that we are on our own. Thomas Jefferson would vote against any nominee who claimed merely to be an umpire calling balls and strikes in a strike zone already determined by the Founders.

    Joseph J. Ellis, a professor of history at Mount Holyoke College, won the 2001 Pulitzer Prize in history for his book “Founding Brothers†and the National Book Award for “American Sphinx: The Character of Thomas Jefferson.†This column first appeared in the Washington Post.

    Read more: http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opi...c91-5688-ae5d-da87ca0a5af6.html#ixzz21P0PStuc
     
  2. Reggae Mistress

    Reggae Mistress Old Catcher's Mitt

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    Damn. That's a lot of words, Dave.
     
  3. Shivvy

    Shivvy 100k Post Club

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    and here we go...
     
  4. Tarpon1965

    Tarpon1965 Resident Dawg Whisperer

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    I bet she says she ain't reading all that shit.
     
  5. tomtom

    tomtom Well-Known Member

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    We still have and will have our guns old man.
     
  6. GHP

    GHP New Member Banned User

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    The discussion was about the 2nd amendment, David. Here's what TJ had to say about that:

    "The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson

    :)
     
  7. Dave

    Dave Active Member

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    pffffff no shit. Way too many for me.
     
  8. gilaet

    gilaet Xanax Service Dog Staff Member

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    The Constitution is written on parchment paper, Dave.
    They stopped writing in stone in your teens.
     
  9. Tarpon1965

    Tarpon1965 Resident Dawg Whisperer

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    :artiejj:
     
  10. Stew Nod

    Stew Nod Hello VIP

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    Dave you never were able to name a single country in history, that drastically inflated their money supply, and didn't blow the fuck up
     
  11. TonyJax

    TonyJax White Privilege Denied. VIP

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    [​IMG]
     
  12. Shivvy

    Shivvy 100k Post Club

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    :jj:
     
  13. Daveindiego

    Daveindiego Confirmed Internet Legend Gold

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    Ain't? Or Can't?
     
  14. GHP

    GHP New Member Banned User

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    :lully::rofl::bully:
     
  15. Daveindiego

    Daveindiego Confirmed Internet Legend Gold

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    Uh, no dopey, the conversation was not just about the 2nd Amendment, but the Constitution as a whole. :pie:
     
  16. gilaet

    gilaet Xanax Service Dog Staff Member

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    Thief!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  17. Daveindiego

    Daveindiego Confirmed Internet Legend Gold

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    I'm still thinking about what you had to say as well....
     
  18. GHP

    GHP New Member Banned User

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    Then take the 5 minutes to quote me where I said it was written in stone, David :jj:
     
  19. Tarpon1965

    Tarpon1965 Resident Dawg Whisperer

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    I think it's important we have the right to arm bears.
     
  20. GHP

    GHP New Member Banned User

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    My idea your execution :facepalm: