In new emails, Madoff says fraud wasn't so bad

Discussion in 'The Howard Stern Show' started by rory, Apr 7, 2015.

  1. rory

    rory Well-Known Member

    Reputations:
    -5,540
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Messages:
    974
    Likes Received:
    1,228
    [​IMG]

    Six years after pleading guilty to charges he ran the biggest investment fraud in U.S. history,Bernie Madoff is insisting that the extent of his crimes is not nearly as bad as the media and the court-appointed trustee in charge of cleaning up the mess are making it out to be.


    In fact, Madoff claims, his "typical" client was a "net winner," who began investing with him before the fraud began and enjoyed double-digit returns for years.

    The assertion comes in a lengthy exchange of messages from the federal prison where Madoff is serving a 150-year sentence. The exchange began last month after Madoff mailed me a printed copy of an email he had sent to a client who apparently was seeking his help defending a claim by bankruptcy trustee Irving Picard, who apparently is seeking the return of funds the client had withdrawn from her Madoff account.

    Read More In new emails Madoff defends his dead sons

    "I know you are aware of the fact that you have been a client since the mid-1970s and like my other clients have had the advantage of earning and withdrawing arbitrage profits with an average annual return of over 15 percent," Madoff wrote to the client, whose name was removed from the copy of the message he mailed me.

    In the message, Madoff also claims that "as early as the late 1990s," he warned clients that the market was making it difficult to obtain the returns they were accustomed to, and that clients should consider closing their accounts or at least withdrawing their profits.

    Madoff has previously claimed he only began fabricating trades around the time of the Asian financial crisis in 1998, though Picard and federal authorities have alleged the fraud began decades earlier.

    Read More Madoff feeder fund settles; victims' recovery tops $10.6 billion


    US appeals court decision may speed new payout to Madoff victims

    As evidence, Madoff points to a 2012 Government Accountability Office report that found that overall, 57 percent of Madoff accounts-individual and institutional-were net winners. For individual accounts, the report noted, winners outnumbered losers by roughly two to one.

    While the report generally backs Picard's methods for determining losses and pursuing clawback claims, Madoff said in an email to me on Monday that it proves something he claims he told Picard as early as 2009: that some of his customers were adept at hiding their profits.

    "When he came to see me I explained that a common practice of my clients was to withdraw their profits and then recycle those profits thru new accounts with different beneficial owners like trusts, foundations and charities all funded with the winnings of the original owner," Madoff wrote. "This would then lead to those new accounts later being claimed as an account that lost their principal."

    A spokeswoman for Picard, Amanda Remus, declined to comment on the specifics in Madoff's messages. In a statement e-mailed to CNBC, she repeated Picard's response to previous Madoff messages, saying that "as the perpetrator of the largest financial fraud in history, Mr. Madoff's credibility is highly suspect and his assertions bring neither substantive value nor new information."

    Madoff also points with apparent pride to the roughly $15 billion recovered for investors, including more than $10 billion by Picard and more than $4 billion in criminal forfeitures obtained by the Justice Department, not to mention billions more in reported settlements with overseas banks.

    "OK, so where are we now?" Madoff writes. "Some 14 billion has in fact been recovered and that does not include the foreign settlements. You ask about my statement that typical individual clients had similar results that appeared in my recent e-mail. Yes that is my view. My typical individual client was a client that invested over the life of my firm and made and has retained legitimate (arbitrage) profits."

    While Madoff points out that the recoveries are more than enough to cover the principal lost by investors, he doesn't directly address the billions of dollars in returns his clients thought they were making, only to learn in 2008 that they were largely fictitious. But as he typically does in these email exchanges, Madoff makes a point of expressing remorse for the fraud.

    "Please understand that I truly regret being responsible for any loss. I also am fully aware that no clients should expect to be betrayed as I clearly have done," he writes.[​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. wigtropolis

    wigtropolis Well-Known Member

    Reputations:
    65,411
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2012
    Messages:
    19,094
    Likes Received:
    10,254
    I wouldn't let him invest my savings at the sperm bank
     
  3. Quality Control

    Quality Control dove Gold

    Reputations:
    794,609
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    6,924
    Likes Received:
    22,669
    That sounds exactly like something he would say.
     
  4. SouthernListen

    SouthernListen I don't follow the crowd. Sorry about that. VIP

    Reputations:
    240,910
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    38,758
    Likes Received:
    39,515
    Interesting they recovered so much the principle was returned (I guess). Considering the crash that happened at that time they'd have lost 60% of what they had anyway. Their real loss was having their money tied up during the 2009-2014 run-up.
     
    Shady_Jake likes this.
  5. larryluncg

    larryluncg Empty VIP Gold

    Reputations:
    14,975
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    11,159
    Likes Received:
    8,908
    That Picard guy is the one milking the system too. His fees are probably in the millions by now. Fuck him and madoff
     
  6. LaserT

    LaserT You have to have fun. Gold

    Reputations:
    348,112
    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    20,087
    Likes Received:
    37,019
    People including Kevin Bacon, were getting HUGE....HUGE returns during bad markets. They knew. Everyone complains and claims victim shock when the bubble bursts. Please.

    I have no sympathy for these "victims". Their returns were insane while the market was in the tank. Never once did they question it?? No, they just took their Ponzi money and smiled. Well....until it all came crashing down on them. I mean...C'mon.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2015
  7. Swedish John

    Swedish John I'm your huckleberry

    Reputations:
    183,411
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    29,673
    Likes Received:
    17,618
  8. Hugh Blowmont

    Hugh Blowmont Just be funny

    Reputations:
    71,579
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    5,243
    Likes Received:
    14,186
    Sounds like someone needs another prison beat-down...
     
  9. LaserT

    LaserT You have to have fun. Gold

    Reputations:
    348,112
    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    20,087
    Likes Received:
    37,019
    New rule...... When the market looks like this.....

    [​IMG]


    AND YOUR INVESTMENT MONEY AND RETURNS LOOKS LIKE THIS......


    [​IMG]


    DO NOT claim victim. You knew and enjoyed your spending on the Ponzi big returns for years while others suffered and lost their savings during bad markets.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2015
  10. Captain

    Captain Alto, Blanco y Guapo Gold

    Reputations:
    139,994
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2013
    Messages:
    6,330
    Likes Received:
    11,912
    He will die in jail, so this is his way of convincing himself that he was not a rat bastard. Yes, many of the individuals he had as clients were high net worth individuals. But, as is so often the case, the individuals were often the representatives or agents of larger concerns, including family trusts, investment firms, pension funds and other pooled asset classes that, in turn, comprised many blue collar, elderly, and young (401(k)) investors. He was a rat, and the fact that some clients should have known better is not an excuse for those that were in no position to know what was going on.
     
  11. Hugh Blowmont

    Hugh Blowmont Just be funny

    Reputations:
    71,579
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    5,243
    Likes Received:
    14,186
    His kid that offed himself is a far better person for saving the taxpayers the cost of a trial and incarceration...
     
  12. LaserT

    LaserT You have to have fun. Gold

    Reputations:
    348,112
    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    20,087
    Likes Received:
    37,019

    I'm veeery surprised no one knew. The market tanked a lot of times during their investments with Madoff Investment Securities and they got freaking insane returns during severe Bear markets. I guess because they were making money hand over fist when they knew they shouldn't have, they didn't question it. Hmm
     
  13. rory

    rory Well-Known Member

    Reputations:
    -5,540
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Messages:
    974
    Likes Received:
    1,228
    Mort Zuckerman Charity Lost $30 Million With Madoff (Update1)[​IMG]
    Boston Properties Inc. ChairmanMortimer Zuckerman said his charitable trust lost $30 million investing with Bernard Madoff.

    The money was invested by a fund manager hired by Zuckerman’s trust, Zuckerman said in an interview on CNBC today. The manager invested about 10 percent of a $300 million fund with Madoff, an arrangement Zuckerman said he didn’t know about.

    “These are astonishing numbers to be placed with one fund manager,” Zuckerman told CNBC. “I never heard of Madoff. I never met him. I’ve never done business with him.”

    Madoff, 70, was arrested Dec. 11 and charged with operating what he told his sons was a long-running Ponzi scheme in the New York-based firm’s business advising rich people, hedge funds and institutions. Federal investigators worked through the weekend to unravel Madoff’s alleged $50 billion in losses.

    Zuckerman was notified about his charity’s losses in a letter from the trust’s management on Dec. 12, he told CNBC.

    “It was a big chunk of money that was intended to go to, shall we say, worthier causes than Mr. Madoff,” Zuckerman said. The losses will not keep Zuckerman from making charitable contributions he already promised, he said.

    Zuckerman is a billionaire real estate investor who owns the Daily News newspaper in New York and U.S. News & World Report magazine. Boston Properties owns about 142 properties with 46.8 million square feet and has a market value of $6.2 billion.

    In June, the company acquired a stake in New York’s General Motors Building on Fifth Avenue. Boston Properties fell 39 percent this year

     
  14. x76

    x76 Well-Known Member

    Reputations:
    34,939
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    4,219
    Likes Received:
    5,521
    A Jew who duped other Jews. Awesome.
     
    dewshtard likes this.
  15. Calloused Shins

    Calloused Shins Well-Known Member

    Reputations:
    69,421
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    Messages:
    4,982
    Likes Received:
    8,390
    150 years for theft, and child molestors getting probation or county sentences. Fuck the justice system
     
  16. rory

    rory Well-Known Member

    Reputations:
    -5,540
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Messages:
    974
    Likes Received:
    1,228
    Larry King admits he invested $700k with Bernie Madoff, but managed to get it all back - while fraudster’s family are told they can KEEP $82million


    [​IMG]
    Larry King invested $700,000 with Wall Street scammer Bernard Madoff but was lucky enough to get it all back, the veteran TV host has admitted.

    King said he and his wife got money back from the Madoff estate and from the government for taxes they paid on stock they never had.

    The admission came as it emerged the Madoff family is set to keep $82million, despite Bernie being imprisoned after pleading guilty to fraud charges.

    Madoff never made investments but used money from new investors to pay previous ones.

    He pleaded guilty to fraud and is imprisoned. His wife has said they tried to kill themselves after he confessed.

    Speaking to syndicated TV news show Extra, King said he had invested $700,000 with the disgraced financier.

    He added that he believes Ruth Madoff came forward to help her daughter-in-law's new book about her husband, Mark Madoff.

    Mark hanged himself with a dog leash last year on the anniversary of his father's arrest.

    Meanwhile, it has emerged that the Madoff family is set to keep $82.3 million of the estate Bernie built up while scamming his investors.


    The trustee who has been charged with cleaning up the Ponzi scheme warned that they would keep the money because of a case he lost against the owners of the New York Mets.

    Last month, Judge Jed Rakoff threw out nine of 11 counts brought by Irving Picard against Mets owners Fred Wilpon and Saul Katz.

    A two year cap was put in place - limiting the amount of money Mr Picard could claw back money from the pair to the cash withdrawn in just the two years prior to Madoff's confession.


    [​IMG]
    Behind bars: Madoff is now in prison after pleading guilty to fraud charges

    This means he could only recover $386 million from them - when he was looking for as much as $1billion withdrawn over at least six years.

    The trustee argues that the two year cap could reduce the amounts of money collected for victims by as much as $6billion.

    If transactions were considered for six years the family would have to give back $141million, whereas a two year ruling means they only owe $58.6million.

    If the two year cap is applied 'to all transactions, Madoff’s family members could retain an extra $82,368,096 of other investors’ money,” Picard wrote, according to the New York Post.
     
  17. aerostern

    aerostern Well-Known Member

    Reputations:
    10,402
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2013
    Messages:
    2,052
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    What's 50 billion, no biggie...