News Italian Court Once Again Overthrows Amanda Knox Guilty Verdict..The Real Evidence...

Discussion in 'The Howard Stern Show' started by teehee, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. teehee

    teehee Friend Of The Friendless VIP

    Reputations:
    179,220
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    4,361
    Likes Received:
    19,221
    Amanda Knox verdict: The real evidence and why (almost) everything you think you know about the case is wrong
    An Italian court annuls a murder verdict. We may never know what happened, but most of the U.S. media has it wrong


    [​IMG]Amanda K
    Today Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito’s convictions for the 2007 murder of British student Meredith Kercher in Perugia, Italy were annulled, bringing this divisive case to a final close. The verdicts came as shock to both pro-innocence and pro-guilt sides, with lawyers for the defendants openly expressing their fears the conviction would be upheld, and even Knox’s supporters saying they feared a guilty verdict was the only outcome.



    Much of the U.S. media has propagated the idea that this has always been a simple case of wrongful conviction: Knox was railroaded by a corrupt prosecutor; she was beaten and bullied into a false confession; and there was no evidence anyway. Or was there?

    “In 50 years of practicing law, I have never seen a more one-sided presentation by the media in the United States of the case,” says Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz. “Everybody is saying there’s no evidence against her and she’s totally innocent. It’s just not true.”

    Whatever your personal stance as to guilt or innocence, Dershowitz is correct that waves of pro-Knox publicity have permeated much of the American media, thanks in part to the backing of Seattle’s largest PR company. Much of what has been reported about the Kercher case is simply untrue; just last week, Nina Burleigh’s Newsweek piece contained multiple untruths, such as the bizarre claim that the trace of Kercher found on Sollecito’s knife actually came from a potato.

    In order to understand how this case unfolded over the past seven and a half years, we must look past the sensationalist images that both pro-innocence and pro-guilt parties promote. Forget the sex-obsessed, manipulative sociopath; forget the naïve, browbeaten college girl. What’s the truth behind the sensationalist slant? With two convictions and now two acquittals, why are so many people still convinced of Knox’s guilt – and that of Raffaele Sollecito?
    “There’s no evidence”

    The claim that there is no evidence is baffling. Among the 10,000 pages of evidence presented is, of course, the DNA evidence.” Knox’s DNA was found on the handle of the murder weapon – a knife belonging to Sollecito – and Kercher’s was found on the blade. Whether it’s really Kercher’s DNA is hotly contested by Knox supporters, but contamination was ruled out at the latest appeal. The probability that the DNA on the blade did not come from Kercher was found to be one in 300 million billion.

    It’s worth noting that Sollecito, to whom the knife belonged, had no trouble accepting it was Kercher’s DNA on his blade: “The fact there is Meredith’s DNA on the kitchen knife is because once when we were all cooking together I accidentally pricked her hand,” he wrote in his prison diary. “I apologized immediately and she said it was not a problem.”

    Sollecito later admitted this was a fabrication and Kercher had never been to his house. His diary contains several more intriguing comments that highlight his trust that it was indeed Kercher’s DNA on his knife: “I was in a total panic because I thought Amanda killed Meredith or maybe helped someone kill her… Amanda may have stitched me up by taking the knife and giving it to the son of a bitch who killed Meredith.”

    Sollecito’s DNA was also found on Kercher’s bra clasp. Because his genetic profile is fully represented at 15 loci (only 10 loci is necessary in most countries), the chance it came from contamination is next to nil.”
    Sollecito admit to hat, “In my previous statement I told a load ish because Amanda had convinced me of her didion ofpolice in 2007 t the facts and I didn’t think about the inconsistencies”?
    Why did Knox and Sollecito insist that they slept soundly through the night of the murder until 10 a.m. when there is undisputed human interaction on Sollecito’s computer at 5:30 a.m., where someone listened to music for around 30 minutes? How could they be asleep if Sollecito’s phone was turned on at 6:02 a.m.? (Sollecito’s lawyer tried to blame his cat for switching on the phone.)
    Why did Knox say she never lefversBut then there is also the circumstantial anunrepof d behavioral evidence that has gone largely rubborted. Whyt Sollemitted when he withdrew hiscito’s apartment that night when her phone records clearly show that she did – a fact Sollecito ad alibi for her last year?

    Why did Knox, apparently frantic with worry at not being able to locate Kercher and desperately calling, only let her phone ring for mere seconds before hanging up?

    Is Knox’s story about using the blood-stained bathmat to slide back to her bedroom on credible – or is it simply a way to explain why her DNA was found mingled with Kercher’s blood in footprints in the hallway? The full evidence list in this case is extensive and, as Dershowitz commented, “there are thousands of Americans in jail today on the basis of far less evidence than there is against Amanda Knox.”
     
  2. teehee

    teehee Friend Of The Friendless VIP

    Reputations:
    179,220
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    4,361
    Likes Received:
    19,221
    There’s no evidence”

    The claim that there is no evidence is baffling. Among the 10,000 pages of evidence presented is, of course, the DNA evidence.” Knox’s DNA was found on the handle of the murder weapon – a knife belonging to Sollecito – and Kercher’s was found on the blade. Whether it’s really Kercher’s DNA is hotly contested by Knox supporters, but contamination was ruled out at the latest appeal. The probability that the DNA on the blade did not come from Kercher was found to be one in 300 million billion.

    Other stories recommended for you

    It’s worth noting that Sollecito, to whom the knife belonged, had no trouble accepting it was Kercher’s DNA on his blade: “The fact there is Meredith’s DNA on the kitchen knife is because once when we were all cooking together I accidentally pricked her hand,” he wrote in his prison diary. “I apologized immediately and she said it was not a problem.”

    Sollecito later admitted this was a fabrication and Kercher had never been to his house. His diary contains several more intriguing comments that highlight his trust that it was indeed Kercher’s DNA on his knife: “I was in a total panic because I thought Amanda killed Meredith or maybe helped someone kill her… Amanda may have stitched me up by taking the knife and giving it to the son of a bitch who killed Meredith.”

    Sollecito’s DNA was also found on Kercher’s bra clasp. Because his genetic profile is fully represented at 15 loci (only 10 loci is necessary in most countries), the chance it came from contamination is next to nil.”

    But then there is also the circumstantial and behavioral evidence that has gone largely unreported. Why did Sollecito admit to police in 2007 that, “In my previous statement I told a load of rubbish because Amanda had convinced me of her version of the facts and I didn’t think about the inconsistencies”?

    Why did Knox and Sollecito insist that they slept soundly through the night of the murder until 10 a.m. when there is undisputed human interaction on Sollecito’s computer at 5:30 a.m., where someone listened to music for around 30 minutes? How could they be asleep if Sollecito’s phone was turned on at 6:02 a.m.? (Sollecito’s lawyer tried to blame his cat for switching on the phone.)

    Why did Knox say she never left Sollecito’s apartment that night when her phone records clearly show that she did – a fact Sollecito admitted when he withdrew his alibi for her last year?

    Why did Knox, apparently frantic with worry at not being able to locate Kercher and desperately calling, only let her phone ring for mere seconds before hanging up?

    Part Two...

    “Knox was tortured into false confession”

    Knox accusing her innocent employer of rape and murder is well-documented. According to her supporters, Knox only accused Patrick Lumumba after a torturous, lengthy interrogation in which she was slapped, screamed at, refused an interpreter and denied food and water. This is information that even Knox’s defense now refutes.

    An interpreter, Anna Domino, was present throughout the interview and Knox testified in court that she was given food and drink. Her lawyer Luciano Ghirga rejected the claims that she was ever hit by police back in 2008, stating, “We never said she was hit,” and just last week the Italian courts ruled that Knox must face trial for further aggravated calumny for repeating these charges in her book and on TV.

    Despite claims that the interview lasted around 40 hours, it was at most two hours long. As soon as Knox learned that Sollecito had withdrawn her alibi, she accused Lumumba of murdering Kercher and placed herself at scene. Knox never retracted her claim and Lumumba spent weeks in prison before being released. The only admission that she had made the whole thing up was to her mother while she was in jail. Her mother decided not to pass on that information to the police.

    “There have been multiple trials”

    Italy’s judicial system has come under fire from much of America. There is the idea that Knox and Sollecito are being persecuted by ruthless Italians unwilling to admit they have made a mistake. More recently, there are claims that Knox will never be extradited due to the double jeopardy clause of the Fifth Amendment.

    Double jeopardy does not apply in this case. No judgment is considered final in Italy until all appeals have been exhausted. There has only ever been one trial, in 2009, which found the defendants guilty. There was then the 2011 appeal which acquitted Knox and Sollecito, and on review was thrown out by the Supreme Court for “multiple instances of deficiencies, contradictions and illogical conclusions.”

    It is not at all uncommon in Italy for cases to bounce between various appellate systems before a final ruling is reached, and in signing the extradition treaty with Italy, the USA accepted this aspect of the Italian judicial system as fair. There are no legal grounds to refuse extradition and the USA cannot alter its extradition policy just for Knox.

    “Rudy Guede Confessed and Only Implicated Knox for a Plea Deal”

    Rudy Guede is the third person convicted of Kercher’s murder. Invariably called a “drug-dealer” or “drifter” in the U.S. media, he was in fact neither; Guede had lived in Perugia since the age of five and there is not evidence for drug dealing.

    Guede’s involvement in the murder is incontrovertible. He left traces of himself in Kercher’s bedroom and admitted being at the cottage. He has, however, never admitted any culpability in Kercher’s death further than stating he regretted leaving her to die from her injuries, saying: “Had I been a man, I would have saved Meredith.”

    No one is disputing that Guede was far more involved than he is letting on, but the idea that he has confessed is just incorrect. In a letter to the courts, he referred to the case as “the dreadful murder of the splendid and marvelous girl Meredith, by Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox.”

    Another theory is that Guede had his sentence cut in exchange for a plea bargain. Plea bargains of this kind do not exist in Italy – Guede’s sentence was reduced from 30 years to 16 because he opted for a fast-track trial, an option Knox and Sollecito had but rejected. Fast track trials involve less evidence being presented, and for this a one-third reduction in sentence is granted. Further, because Knox and Sollecito’s young age was taken into account by the judge and their sentence was reduced from 30 years to 24, Guede’s appeal allowed him the same mitigating factors; he was 21 at the time of the murder, two years younger than Sollecito.

    Despite this latest ruling, we will probably never know exactly what went on the night of November 1, 2007. We do know, however, that this case has always been far more complex than just the railroading of an attractive young American, and even now it is over, portraying it as such is dubious. After all, it was Knox herself who, when asked if she’d received a fair trial by an Italian member of parliament, affirmed that, “Yes, the system was fair to me.”
     
    Psyche, Trophy Knife and Shortwave98 like this.
  3. Dorb

    Dorb Lovable Old Pig VIP Gold

    Reputations:
    124,374
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Messages:
    17,491
    Likes Received:
    18,530
    Good for her. Never thought she was guilty. The Italian kangaroo court system and the Italian press originally convicted her.
     
    floplop, AmishGirl and Shortwave98 like this.
  4. Lemmy

    Lemmy Douchebag Extraordinaire Gold

    Reputations:
    428,209
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    30,290
    Likes Received:
    30,975
    Her haircut is influencing me to determine that she is guilty.
     
  5. Alisonsbankacct

    Alisonsbankacct Out to lunch.

    Reputations:
    155,319
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Messages:
    11,245
    Likes Received:
    26,818
    I don't know what to make of this girl.

    If you saw the roommate of a just-murdered young woman doing cartwheels at the police station and heavily making out with her boyfriend would you think she was simply a weirdo, or that there was more to the story? I'm just curious what your instincts would tell you.
     
  6. HowieHasBeen

    HowieHasBeen VIP Extreme Gold

    Reputations:
    19,588
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,326
    Likes Received:
    5,382
    Would bang.
     
    Richard Tucker likes this.
  7. isabella

    isabella VIP Extreme Gold

    Reputations:
    64,564
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Messages:
    14,359
    Likes Received:
    10,659
    i still think she's guilty of something...maybe not the actual murder but she was an accomplice and was there when meredith was murdered.
     
    BethWeave, DiamondGoddess and Thelma like this.
  8. Evil Clown

    Evil Clown 34 VIP

    Reputations:
    6,983
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    856
    Likes Received:
    1,608
    The standard is you only convict beyond a reasonable doubt. Even if she had a hand in this, the prosecutors were so incompetent that they could never prove anything. She should be let go.
     
  9. Lemmy

    Lemmy Douchebag Extraordinaire Gold

    Reputations:
    428,209
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    30,290
    Likes Received:
    30,975
    One thing that I know for sure is that innocent and guilty people do weird and dumb shit. As soon as I realized that my view of "normal" and what I would do in a given situation simply did and does not apply then my job became much easier and less frustrating.
     
    Psyche, PI Nate, Trophy Knife and 4 others like this.
  10. Alisonsbankacct

    Alisonsbankacct Out to lunch.

    Reputations:
    155,319
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Messages:
    11,245
    Likes Received:
    26,818
    Makes sense.
     
    Lemmy and Shortwave98 like this.
  11. Lemmy

    Lemmy Douchebag Extraordinaire Gold

    Reputations:
    428,209
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    30,290
    Likes Received:
    30,975
    I only know the barest minimum of facts in this case. I didn't follow what the evidence was......just what she was wearing to court and whatnot. :eek:
     
  12. Head Censor

    Head Censor Turgid Member VIP

    Reputations:
    393,481
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2011
    Messages:
    10,325
    Likes Received:
    26,915
    I love Italy. I lived there for years and think the Italian people are wonderful. But their judicial system is such a joke that I'm hesitant to take sides in this matter one way or the other.

    Let's not forget that this is the same country where two seven men were indicted and convicted of the crime of not predicting an earthquake. :dontknow:
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
  13. Shortwave98

    Shortwave98 A-Number 1 Banned User

    Reputations:
    178,992
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    Messages:
    31,231
    Likes Received:
    31,971
    Both
     
  14. Alisonsbankacct

    Alisonsbankacct Out to lunch.

    Reputations:
    155,319
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Messages:
    11,245
    Likes Received:
    26,818
    I certainly don't think there was nearly enough to convict her, but this is a really weird one, all the way around.
     
    Shortwave98 likes this.
  15. Shortwave98

    Shortwave98 A-Number 1 Banned User

    Reputations:
    178,992
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    Messages:
    31,231
    Likes Received:
    31,971
    Does this bring to mind Casey Anthony?
     
  16. Dorb

    Dorb Lovable Old Pig VIP Gold

    Reputations:
    124,374
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Messages:
    17,491
    Likes Received:
    18,530
    It turned out that all this was doctored and taken out of context by the Italian press
     
    Shortwave98 likes this.
  17. Alisonsbankacct

    Alisonsbankacct Out to lunch.

    Reputations:
    155,319
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Messages:
    11,245
    Likes Received:
    26,818
    :nocheer:
     
    Shortwave98 likes this.
  18. Alisonsbankacct

    Alisonsbankacct Out to lunch.

    Reputations:
    155,319
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Messages:
    11,245
    Likes Received:
    26,818
    That one was so awful I couldn't bare to really pay attention to it
     
  19. remdeprived

    remdeprived Well-Known Member

    Reputations:
    9,404
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,053
    Likes Received:
    1,750
    Fuck Alan Dershowitz. Ever since he wanted us to believed OJ was innocent, any shit that comes out of his mouth has zero credence.
     
  20. SouthernListen

    SouthernListen I don't follow the crowd. Sorry about that. VIP

    Reputations:
    240,265
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    38,685
    Likes Received:
    39,401
    This was a pretty good collection of the evidence, much of which is in the article above. It takes a few evenings to read through, however.

    Even discounting for some incompetent investigation or errors, it is difficult for me to conclude that NOTHING was up with those two. They lied so many times and kept changing stories over and over. The so-called "torture interview" lasted at most 2 hours, provable to my satisfaction in the section on that. And there was a LOT of other evidence that indicated some degree of guilt. I'm fairly certain she had something to do with the death, but no idea why or exactly how.

    When I went to a Pro-knox cite to seek refutation of this site, I was not nearly as impressed by that presentation. It made a lot of assertions but didn't back up most of them or properly reference them.

    http:/themurderofmeredithkercher.com
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
    Psyche, DiamondGoddess and Thelma like this.