Politics Neocons declare war on Trump

Discussion in 'The Howard Stern Show' started by dawg, Mar 3, 2016.

  1. dawg

    dawg In The Dog House Staff Member

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    Donald Trump calls the Iraq War a lie-fueled fiasco, admires Vladimir Putin and says he would be a "neutral" arbiter between Israel and the Palestinians. When it comes to America’s global role he asks, “Why are we always at the forefront of everything?"

    Even more than his economic positions, Trump's foreign policy views challenge GOP orthodoxy in fundamental ways. But while parts of the party establishment are resigning themselves or even backing Trump's runaway train, one group is bitterly digging in against him: the hawkish foreign policy elites known as neoconservatives.


    In interviews with POLITICO, leading neocons — people who promoted the Iraq War, detest Putin and consider Israel's security non-negotiable — said Trump would be a disaster for U.S. foreign policy and vowed never to support him. So deep is their revulsion that several even say they could vote for Hillary Clinton over Trump in November.

    “Hillary is the lesser evil, by a large margin,” said Eliot Cohen, a former top State Department official under George W. Bush and a strategic theorist who argues for a muscular U.S. role abroad. Trump's election would be “an unmitigated disaster for American foreign policy," Cohen said, adding that "he has already damaged it considerably.”

    Cohen, an Iraq war backer who is often called a neoconservative but said he does not identify himself that way, said he would "strongly prefer a third party candidate" to Trump, but added: "Probably if absolutely no alternative: Hillary."

    In a March 1 interview with Vox, Max Boot, a military historian at the Council on Foreign Relations who backed the Iraq War and often advocates a hawkish foreign policy, said that he, too, would vote for Clinton over Trump. "I'm literally losing sleep over Donald Trump," he said. "She would be vastly preferable to Trump."

    Cohen helped to organize an open letter signed by several dozen GOP foreign policy insiders — many of whom are not considered neocons — that was published Wednesday night by the military blog War on the Rocks. “[W]e are unable to support a Party ticket with Mr. Trump at its head,” the letter declared. It cited everything from Trump’s "admiration for foreign dictators” to his “inexcusable” support for “the expansive use of torture."

    The letter was signed by dozens of Republican foreign policy experts, including Boot; Peter Feaver, a former senior national security aide in George W. Bush's White House; Robert Zoellick, a former deputy to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice; and Dov Zakheim, a former Bush Pentagon official; and Kori Schake, a fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution and a former Bush State Department official.

    Several other neocons said they find themselves in an impossible position, constitutionally incapable of voting for Clinton but repelled by a Republican whose foreign policy views they consider somewhere between nonexistent and dangerous — and disconnected from their views about American power and values abroad.

    "1972 was the first time I was old enough to vote for president, and I did not vote. Couldn't vote for McGovern for foreign policy reasons, nor for Nixon because of Watergate," said Elliott Abrams, a former national security council aide to George W. Bush who specializes in democracy and the Middle East. "I may be in the same boat in 2016, unable to vote for Trump or Clinton."

    Weekly Standard Editor Bill Kristol, something of a dean of Washington neoconservatives, said he would seek out a third option before choosing between Trump and Clinton.

    “If it's Trump-Clinton, I'd work with others to recruit a strong conservative third party candidate, and do my best to help him win (which by the way would be more possible than people think, especially when people — finally — realize Trump shouldn't be president and Hillary is indicted),” Kristol wrote in an email.

    Kristol and Abrams have advised Florida senator Marco Rubio, the preferred choice of several neoconservatives, who admire his call for "moral clarity" in foreign policy and strong emphasis on human rights and democracy.

    Alarm brewing for months in GOP foreign policy circles burst into public view last week, when Robert Kagan, a key backer of the Iraq War and American global might, wrote in the Washington Post that a Trump nomination would force him to cross party lines.

    “The only choice will be to vote for Hillary Clinton,” Kagan warned. “The party cannot be saved, but the country still can be.”

    In an interview, Kagan said his opposition to Trump "has nothing to do with foreign policy."

    "What it has to do with is the health and safety of American democracy," he added. "I don't even know what Donald Trump's foreign policy is. I don't think anybody does."

    Though Trump's foreign policy views don't fit any familiar category, he has outlined several clear positions at odds with neoconservative doctrine.

    While neoconservatives believe America plays a unique role in defending global order and Western values, Trump has long complained about America's military presence abroad and the protection the U.S. provides to prosperous allies like Saudi Arabia, Japan and South Korea.

    Neocons depict Russian President Vladimir Putin as a sinister tyrant challenging America; Trump calls Putin a strong leader with whom he'd "get along very well" and proposes a more cooperative relationship with Moscow.

    Neocons believe the U.S. must forcefully defend Israel. But while Trump insists his presidency would be "the best thing that could ever happen to Israel," he has alarmed pro-Israel Republicans with his pledge to be a "neutral" arbiter in talks between Israel and the Palestinians.

    Trump has shown little interest in the neoconservative cause of an interventionist foreign policy guided by principles like democracy and human rights. And he says the neocon project of invading Iraq may have been "the worst decision" in presidential history.

    Some conservative foreign policy insiders opposed to Trump stop short of saying they would vote for Clinton, despite elements of her foreign policy record, such as her 2002 Senate vote to authorize force against Iraq, that they find appealing.

    “I could never vote for Clinton under any circumstances,” said Abrams.

    “I would ask Bob [Kagan] what job he thinks Sidney Blumenthal will have at the NSC before pulling the lever for Clinton,” he added — a reference to the longtime Clinton adviser and bete noir of the right.

    Danielle Pletka, a defense expert at the American Enterprise Institute said she, too, would seek some alternative to Trump and Clinton.



    "[W]hile I will never vote for a Democrat in wolf’s clothing like Trump, I will also never vote for a candidate as dishonest, as rapacious, as Hillary Clinton," she wrote in an email. "My vote is a precious thing, and while I will certainly go to the polls, if those are my choices, I will write someone in. And no, it won’t be Bloomberg."

    The word "neoconservative" is subject to interpretation, and some conservatives consider it pejorative. Originally used to describe Democrats who adopted hard-line anti-Communist views during the Cold War, the word's colloquial meaning roughly amounts to “hawkish GOP foreign policy intellectual.”

    Neocons have shown little enthusiasm for Texas Senator Ted Cruz, who has singled them out for scorn. Speaking to Iowa voters in December, Cruz bashed what he called the "crazy neocon invade-every-country-on-earth and send our kids to die in the Middle East” element of his party.

    Cruz has also attacked Rubio in debates for supporting military action to topple Middle Eastern dictators in Libya and Syria, and has said the world was better off with former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein in power.

    But the neocons reserve special scorn for Trump.

    "A Trump presidency would represent the death knell of America as a great power," Boot writes in the March 7 issue of the Weekly Standard, along with Council on Foreign Relations economist Benn Steill.

    Steill and Boot — who also has advised Rubio — call Trump "singularly ill-equipped to manage the resulting turmoil" from his policies. They recall the September radio interview in which Trump confused the Kurds with Iran's elite military Quds force and admitted he was unfamiliar with the leaders of major Islamist terror groups.

    Cohen also added that he doesn't oppose Trump solely on foreign policy grounds, calling the Manhattan mogul “the most dangerous demagogue in American politics in my lifetime.”

    Several other prominent neoconservatives, including former Bush Pentagon official Paul Wolfowitz and Liz Cheney, daughter of former vice president Dick Cheney, did not respond to requests for comment.


    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/trump-clinton-neoconservatives-220151#ixzz41pkNpqJx
     
  2. face palm

    face palm Well-Known Member

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    colin powell
     
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  3. PI Nate

    PI Nate Disenfranchised since 1984... Gold

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    They will vote for hillary, she maintains the status quo.
     
  4. SleepingWarrior

    SleepingWarrior Well-Known Member VIP

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    Shit, with the neocons coming out so strongly against Trump I may have to actually vote for him instead of sitting out this year as I had planned to do once anyone I could conceivably vote for dropped out. Though my vote doesn't matter in that regard since MN has been a lock for Democrat Pres candidates since Nixon.
     
  5. Beth143nacho

    Beth143nacho Well-Known Member VIP

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    This is a good thing.

    The establishment can't stand being ignored.
     
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  6. dawg

    dawg In The Dog House Staff Member

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    Neoconservatism (commonly shortened to neocon) is a political movement born in the United States during the 1960s among Democrats who became disenchanted with the party's domestic and especially foreign policy. Many of its adherents became politically famous during the Republican presidential administrations of the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s and 2000s. Neoconservatives peaked in influence during the administrations of George W. Bush and George H.W. Bush, when they played a major role in promoting and planning the 2003 invasion of Iraq.[1] Prominent neoconservatives in the Bush administration included Paul Wolfowitz, John Bolton, Elliott Abrams, Richard Perle, Robert Kagan and Paul Bremer. Senior officials Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, while not identifying themselves as neoconservatives, listened closely to neoconservative advisers regarding foreign policy, especially the defense of Israel, the promotion of democracy in the Middle East, and the buildup of American military forces to achieve these goals. The neocons have influence in the Obama White House, and neoconservatism remains a staple in both parties' arsenal.[2][3]

    The term "neoconservative" refers to those who made the ideological journey from the anti-Stalinist Left to the camp of American conservatism.[4] Neoconservatives typically advocate the promotion of democracy and promotion of American national interest in international affairs, including by means of military force, and are known for espousing disdain for communism and for political radicalism.[5][6] The movement had its intellectual roots in the Jewish monthly review magazine Commentary, published by the American Jewish Committee.[7][8] They spoke out against the New Left, and in that way helped define the movement.[9][10] C. Bradley Thompson, a professor at Clemson University, claims that most influential neoconservatives refer explicitly to the theoretical ideas in the philosophy of Leo Strauss (1899–1973),[11] though in doing so they may draw upon meaning that Strauss himself did not endorse.
     
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  7. Howchilla

    Howchilla VIP Extreme Gold

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    All Trump has to do is win in Florida than the real fireworks will happen.

    Grab a chair folks, the bloodletting in the Republican Party will be crazy.

    Ben Ginsburg, a Republican lawyer, who was a key figure in the Bush v Gore recount was on Meet the Press and laid out the scenario for stealing the nomination from Trump. He said they would go to state conventions and try to flip States allocation of delagates. Delegates are only bound to vote for the intended candidate on the first convention vote.

    Basically, if Trump doesn't have the nomination locked-up going into the convention he will be in trouble. Even if he has a big delegate lead and is short of the requirement.
     
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  8. Turtle Man

    Turtle Man Hello Darling Gold

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    Wouldn't be one bit surprised if this all an elaborate scheme to get Hillary the presidency
    Maybe trump is part of it. Who knows anymore
     
  9. Dick Fitzwell

    Dick Fitzwell Opinions are like assholes ... and so am I

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  10. dawg

    dawg In The Dog House Staff Member

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    The chicken hawk party is falling apart before our very eyes. I couldn't be more pleased myself :smile:

    Rumsfeld what a fucking joke :jj:

    By the way, did they ever find those trillions of dollars that went missing from the Pentagon on 9/10/2001? under the watchful eyes of the chicken hawks?
     
  11. Super Dave

    Super Dave Well-Known Member

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    If you are into this topic you should check out The No Agenda podcast, they've been having a blast dissecting this political contest.
     
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  12. MrWarmth

    MrWarmth ADORABLE DEPLORABLE Gold

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    Bush's cronies still pulling the strings. Look in the dictionary under FAILED FOREIGN POLICY and there'll be a picture of the Bush Administration.
     
  13. Vincenzo69

    Vincenzo69 Well-Known Member

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    The neocons want a war in the Middle East. Trump may not go along with it
     
  14. Vincenzo69

    Vincenzo69 Well-Known Member

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    They want a war and they want oil to go back to being between $75-$100 a barrel. Trump has his own ideas.
     
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  15. SorryBoff

    SorryBoff Well-Known Member

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    What were oil prices when Obama took office?
     
  16. buried20kleague

    buried20kleague Well-Known Member VIP

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    I believe that's probably more real than most like to believe.
     
  17. CrucifiedAGT

    CrucifiedAGT He's Around VIP

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    This isnt the GOP vs Trump. This is the Washington Machine vs Trump.

    Two wings of the same bird.
     
  18. Head Censor

    Head Censor Turgid Member VIP

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    Wow. Trump has so badly upset the establishment apple cart on both sides of the aisle that he actually has the statists at Vox sucking "neocon" cock. :jj:

    This just keeps getting better by the day. :D
     
  19. Dirty South

    Dirty South Large Member

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    Makes me want Trump even more.

    There's more of us than there is of these "insider" do-nothing cocksuckers.

    Fuck them. Each one should have to be on the front line of the next conflict.
     
  20. AnimalGod

    AnimalGod Well-Known Member VIP

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    I love seeing the Repubs tearing themselves apart easily the most entertaining presidential campaign in my lifetime.