Politics The case against socialism

Discussion in 'The Howard Stern Show' started by Beth143nacho, May 21, 2016.

  1. Beth143nacho

    Beth143nacho Well-Known Member VIP

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    this article hits the nail on the head. All these "socialist" countries in Europe arguing that their way of life is the best... Yet they fail to understand what makes their version of socialism actually work: American military funding.

    Before you call me a conservative hack, please note the source of this article: Barney Frank and Ron Paul. This was also cross posted by huffing ton post. This alliance between frank and Paul was one of the most, probably the last real, respectable things done in congress...

    Article:

    Why we must reduce military spending (Reps. Barney Frank and Ron Paul)
    It is irrefutably clear to us that if we do not make substantial cuts in the projected levels of Pentagon spending, we will do substantial damage to our economy and dramatically reduce our quality of life.
    We are not talking about cutting the money needed to supply American troops in the field. Once we send our men and women into battle, even in cases where we may have opposed going to war, we have an obligation to make sure that our servicemembers have everything they need. And we are not talking about cutting essential funds for combating terrorism; we must do everything possible to prevent any recurrence of the mass murder of Americans that took place on September 11, 2001.

    Immediately after World War II, with much of the world devastated and the Soviet Union becoming increasingly aggressive, America took on the responsibility of protecting virtually every country that asked for it. Sixty-five years later, we continue to play that role long after there is any justification for it, and currently American military spending makes up approximately 44% of all such expenditures worldwide. The nations of Western Europe now collectively have greater resources at their command than we do, yet they continue to depend overwhelmingly on American taxpayers to provide for their defense. According to a recent article in the New York Times, "Europeans have boasted about their social model, with its generous vacations and early retirements, its national health care systems and extensive welfare benefits, contrasting it with the comparative harshness of American capitalism. Europeans have benefited from low military spending, protected by NATO and the American nuclear umbrella."

    When our democratic allies are menaced by larger, hostile powers, there is a strong argument to be made for supporting them. But the notion that American taxpayers get some benefit from extending our military might worldwide is deeply flawed. And the idea that as a superpower it is our duty to maintain stability by intervening in civil disorders virtually anywhere in the world often generates anger directed at us and may in the end do more harm than good.

    We believe that the time has come for a much quicker withdrawal from Iraq than the President has proposed. We both voted against that war, but even for those who voted for it, there can be no justification for spending over $700 billion dollars of American taxpayers' money on direct military spending in Iraq since the war began, not including the massive, estimated long-term costs of the war. We have essentially taken on a referee role in a civil war, even mediating electoral disputes.

    In order to create a systematic approach to reducing military spending, we haveconvened a Sustainable Defense Task Force consisting of experts on military expenditures that span the ideological spectrum. The task force has produced a detailed report with specific recommendations for cutting Pentagon spending by approximately $1 trillion over a ten year period. It calls for eliminating certain Cold War weapons and scaling back our commitments overseas. Even with these changes, the United States would still be immeasurably stronger than any nation with which we might be engaged, and the plan will in fact enhance our security rather than diminish it.

    We are currently working to enlist the support of other members of Congress for our initiative. Along with our colleagues Senator Ron Wyden and Congressman Walter Jones, we have addressed a letter to the President's National Committee on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, which he has convened to develop concrete recommendations for reducing the budget deficit. We will make it clear to leaders of both parties that substantial reductions in military spending must be included in any future deficit reduction package. We pledge to oppose any proposal that fails to do so.

    In the short term, rebuilding our economy and creating jobs will remain our nation's top priority. But it is essential that we begin to address the issue of excessive military spending in order to ensure prosperity in the future. We may not agree on what to do with the estimated $1 trillion in savings, but we do agree that nothing either of us cares deeply about will be possible if we do not begin to face this issue now.

    Cross-posted from The Huffington Post
     
  2. Beth143nacho

    Beth143nacho Well-Known Member VIP

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  3. Stew Nod

    Stew Nod Hello VIP

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    Fascinating....you have a valid argument. But I suspect if there was an equally valid argument, supporting socialism, you debunk it as false

    People get dogmatic about stuff and then keep reading agreeing with stuff they already agree with

    Meanwhile rome(the US middle class) burns
     
  4. Beth143nacho

    Beth143nacho Well-Known Member VIP

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    My argument is that it won't work in the us, for the same reason romneycare did work in ma, but doesn't on a national level: the us is bailing them out... But nobody will bail out the us...

    If Norway and Sweden had to pay for the us forces guarding them, or replace them with their own troops, the socialism bragged about in Norway or Sweden would be mess like that of France and more like that of Belarus or Russia.

    Frank and Paul crusaded for about a year on this, and it was fascinating to watch. Both were on their way out of congress and threw partisanship to the wind. We could cut nearly $1 trillion from our military budget just from reducing this type of expense...
     
  5. Evil Clown

    Evil Clown 34 VIP

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    This.
     
  6. Beth143nacho

    Beth143nacho Well-Known Member VIP

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    Not even close. If you can prove me wrong, prove me wrong.
     
  7. Stew Nod

    Stew Nod Hello VIP

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    I agree, 100%

    I also think I could give you several examples of why their brand of socialism benefits them in ways we can't even fathom here in the US....Also how it would help 99% of the folks who post here immensely.....But I won't, because I dont feel like debating someone who is convinced it sucks. because he was told that by the machine

    No offense, have a great day
     
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  8. Stew Nod

    Stew Nod Hello VIP

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    :lol:

    want's to debate.....
     
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  9. Evil Clown

    Evil Clown 34 VIP

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    Yeah, not happening. :) And quite honestly, no one, especially on a MESSAGE BOARD of all places is going to convert someone.
     
  10. Bro

    Bro Oligarchical Corporatocracy VIP Gold

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    The article doesn't mention that the european model will not work in the US.