News Warp drives may be possible? NASA EMDrive paper passes peer review

Discussion in 'The Howard Stern Show' started by Cookie_Puss, Sep 3, 2016.

  1. Cookie_Puss

    Cookie_Puss Well-Known Member

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    :yes:If you are into space this is well worth the lengthy read.

    HERE’S THE 411 ON THE EMDRIVE: THE ‘PHYSICS-DEFYING’ THRUSTER EVEN NASA IS PUZZLED OVER

    An EmDrive paper has reportedly passed peer review
    By Brendan Hesse — August 31, 2016 11:47 AM
    the key to interstellar travel, and claims that it will drastically reduce travel time across our solar system, making our dreams of people walking on other planets even more of a reality. There have even been claims that this highly controversial technology is the key to creating warp drives.

    These are bold claims, and as the great cosmologist and astrophysicist Carl Sagan once said, “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” With that in mind, we thought it’d be helpful to break down what we know about the enigmatic EmDrive, and whether it is, in fact, the key to mankind exploring the stars.

    So without further ado, here’s absolutely everything you need to know about the world’s most puzzling propulsion device.

    This article is periodically updated in response to news and developments regarding the EM Drive and the theories surrounding it.

    An EmDrive paper has finally been accepted by peer review
    Originally, this article pointed out that previous studies and papers on the EmDrive have either not been submitted, or passed peer review. Those days are in the past, however, given a NASA Eagleworks’ paper on the EmDrive test which has reportedly passed the peer review process and will soon be published by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics’ AIAA Journal of Propulsion and Power.

    This is an important step for the EmDrive as it adds legitimacy to the technology and the tests done thus far, opening the door for other groups to replicate the tests. This will also allow other groups to devote more resources to uncovering why and how it works, and how to iterate on the drive to make it a viable form of propulsion. So, while a single peer-reviewed paper isn’t going to suddenly equip the human race with interplanetary travel, it’s the first step toward eventually realizing that possible future.

    What is the EmDrive?
    See, the EmDrive is a conundrum. First designed in 2001 by aerospace engineer Roger Shawyer, the technology can be summed up as a propellantless propulsion system, meaning the engine doesn’t use fuel to cause a reaction. Removing the need for fuel makes a craft substantially lighter, and therefore easier to move (and cheaper to make, theoretically). In addition, the hypothetical drive is able to reach extremely high speeds — we’re talking potentially getting humans to the outer reaches of the solar system in a matter of months.

    We’re talking potentially getting humans to the outer reaches of the solar system in a matter of months.

    The issue is, the entire concept of a reactionless drive is inconsistent with Newton’s conservation of momentum, which states that within a closed system, linear and angular momentum remain constant regardless of any changes that take place within said system. More plainly: Unless an outside force is applied, an object will not move.

    Related: NASA will isolate 6 researchers in a dome for a year to simulate a Mars mission

    Reactionless drives are named as such because they lack the “reaction” defined in Newton’s third law: “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.” But this goes against our current fundamental understanding of physics: An action (propulsion of a craft) taking place without a reaction (ignition of fuel and expulsion of mass) should be impossible. For such a thing to occur, it would mean an as-yet-undefined phenomenon is taking place — or our understanding of physics is completely wrong.

    How does the EmDrive “work?”
    Setting aside the potentially physics-breaking improbabilities of the technology, let’s break down in simple terms how the proposed drive operates. The EmDrive is what is called an RF resonant cavity thruster, and is one of several hypothetical machines that use this model. These designs work by having a magnetron push microwaves into a closed truncated cone, then push against the short end of the cone, and propel the craft forward.

    This is in contrast to the form of propulsion current spacecraft use, which burn large quantities of fuel to expel a massive amount of energy and mass to rocket the craft into the air. An often-used metaphor for the inefficacy of this is to compare the particles pushing against the enclosure and producing thrust to the act of sitting in a car and pushing a steering wheel to move the car forward.

    While tests have been done on experimental versions of the drive — with low energy inputs resulting in a few micronewtons of thrust (about as much force as the weight of a penny) — The first peer-reviewed paper has only been recently accepted, and none of the findings from other tests have ever been published in a peer-reviewed journal. It’s possible some positive thrust results may have been caused by interference or an unaccounted error with test equipment. The fact that NASA Eagleworks’ paper has been reportedly accepted by peer review and will be published in AIAA Journal of Propulsion and Power does add quite a bit of legitimacy to these claims, however.

    Although there’s been much skepticism regarding the EmDrive prior to the Eagleworks paper, it’s important to note that there’s been a number of people who have tested the drive and reported achieving thrust.

    • In 2001, Shawyer was given a £45,000 grant from the British government to test the EmDrive. His test reportedly achieved 0.016 Newtons of force and required 850 watts of power, but no peer review of the tests verified this. It’s worth noting, however, that this number was low enough that it was potentially an experimental error.
    • In 2008, Yang Juan and a team of Chinese researches at the Northwestern Polytechnical University allegedly verified the theory behind RF resonant cavity thrusters, and subsequently built their own version in 2010, testing the drive multiple times from 2012 to 2014. Tests results were purportedly positive, achieving up yo 750 mN (millinewtons) of thrust, and requiring 2,500 watts of power.
    • In 2014, NASA researchers, tested their own version of an EmDrive, including in a hard vacuum. Once again, the group reported thrust (about 1/1,000 of Shawyer’s claims), and once again, the data was never published through peer-reviewed sources. Other NASA groups are skeptical of researchers’ claims, but in their paper, it is clearly stated that these findings neither confirm nor refute the drive, instead calling for further tests.
    • In 2015, that same NASA group tested a version of chemical engineer Guido Fetta’s Cannae Drive (née Q Drive), and reported positive net thrust. Similarly, a research group at Dresden University of Technology also tested the drive, again reporting thrust, both predicted and unexpected.
    • Yet another test by a NASA research group, Eagleworks, in late 2015 seemingly confirmed the validity of the EmDrive. The test corrected errors that had occurred in the previous tests, and surprisingly, the drive achieved thrust. However, the group has not yet submitted their findings for peer review. It’s possible that other unforeseen errors in the experiment may have cause thrust (the most likely of which is that the vacuum was compromised, causing heat to expand air within it testing environment and move the drive). Whether the findings are ultimately published or not, more tests need to be done. That’s exactly what Glenn Research Center in Cleveland, Ohio, NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory intend to do. For EmDrive believers, there seems to be some hope.
    In mid-2016, a new theory was put forth by physicist Michael McCulloch, a researcher from Plymouth University in the United Kingdom, which may offer an explanation of the thrust observed in tests. McCulloch’s theory deals with inertia and something called the Unruh effect — a concept predicted by relativity, which makes the universe appear hotter the more you accelerate, with the heat observed relative to the acceleration.

    You can read the rest at the link.

    ://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/emdrive-news-rumors/
     
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  2. Woof

    Woof Liver Shots? VIP

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  3. Tranquil

    Tranquil Well-Known Member

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  4. oldpaddy

    oldpaddy Well-Known Member

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    The problem is, how do you stop?
    That's if it works.
     
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  5. Cookie_Puss

    Cookie_Puss Well-Known Member

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    I hadn't thought of that, that's a good point. I would guess it is addressed in the full paper, but you are right it's all still theory. Hopefully we get to see even some of it actually get developed in our lifetimes.
     
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  6. oldpaddy

    oldpaddy Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe they'll tackle it in the research paper. I'm pretty sure they'll just focus on the engine itself. Another question is how long will it take before we know if it works correctly? Wouldn't we lose short term communication quickly if indeed it works? Fascinating stuff.
     
  7. Cookie_Puss

    Cookie_Puss Well-Known Member

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    I can see how the communication would be a big deal as well, I think I remember reading that it takes 48 light minutes for us to get messages back from Juno. It will definitely be interesting to read more about it all.
     
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  8. broccoli rob

    broccoli rob thanks for the memories DW3

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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. broccoli rob

    broccoli rob thanks for the memories DW3

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  10. thegroovologist

    thegroovologist Well-Known Member

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  11. Mr Sinister

    Mr Sinister Gold

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    Engage
     
  12. Cookie_Puss

    Cookie_Puss Well-Known Member

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    I saw that in IMAX, absolutely loved that movie. Music was amazing as well.
     
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  13. thegroovologist

    thegroovologist Well-Known Member

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    >>>



     
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  14. Cookie_Puss

    Cookie_Puss Well-Known Member

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    That first video is awesome, I've never seen that before, the bit about the organ was really cool.
    Zimmer is a musical genius, I still get goosebumps when I hear that soundtrack. "No time for caution", "mountains", "drone chase" and the one where Cooper is falling through space and time (can't remember the name) are some of my favorites.
     
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  15. burunduk34

    burunduk34 Well-Known Member

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    My wife is puzzled by that same thing every night.
     
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  16. Brokenbad

    Brokenbad Well-Known Member

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    resonant cavity thrusters.....

    [​IMG]
     
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