What's your take on this social issue in Oregon

Discussion in 'The Howard Stern Show' started by Ganggreen87, Feb 2, 2015.

  1. Ganggreen87

    Ganggreen87 Well-Known Member

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    Howard related because Rosie O'Donnell is gay
    Local bakery refuses to make wedding cake for gay couple based on religious issues and loses 150k lawsuit. My wife and I have argued about this for a few hours. What's the difference between this and an all womens gym, or the NAACP giving scholarships to blacks only.Whats your take? Just curious



    "From today's oregonian"
    The long-running legal battle sparked by a Gresham bakery's refusal to make a wedding cake for a lesbian couple will proceed toward a March hearing after a failed effort to have the case thrown out.

    An administrative law judge has rejected an attempt by lawyers representing the owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa to dismiss the case and award them $200,000 for damages, court costs and attorney fees.

    Instead, the judge said in an interim order that Aaron and Melissa Klein unlawfully discriminated against the same-sex couple by denying them full and equal access to a place of public accommodation.

    The ruling clears the way for a March 10 hearing in Portland in a highly charged case centering on the business owners' religious beliefs and alleged violation of their customers' civil rights.

    In Oregon, such contested civil rights cases can be heard before an administrative law judge or taken to civil court.

    Sweet Cakes by Melissa
    Read the 52-page interim order (pdf) by administrative law judge Alan McCullough.
    Both sides had sought summary judgment in the dispute. But in his Jan. 29 interim order, Alan McCullough found that the undisputed facts in the case supported charges of unlawful discrimination under the Oregon Equality Act.

    Paul Thompson, a Portland lawyer advising the lesbian couple, said Monday morning that he was happy with the ruling. "The entire time, I felt the law was very much on our side because the law is black and white," he said. "You cannot discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation."

    Anna Harmon of Canby, one of three attorneys representing the Kleins, disagreed.

    "The (administrative law judge) recognized that all of the State's claims but one were baseless and not supported by the facts of the case," she said in an emailed statement. "We view this as a partial victory. However, the (judge) ruled wrongly that the Kleins' right not to design and create a work of art celebrating an event which violates the tenets of their religion is not protected by the Oregon or Federal Constitutions. This is a wrong and dangerous result for religious liberty and rights of conscience in Oregon...

    "Americans should not have to choose between adhering to their faith or closing their business, but that is what this decision means."

    The March hearing will focus on damages for the same-sex couple.

    By then, the conflict will be more than two years old, but it won't be settled until Oregon Labor Commissioner Brad Avakian has the final say.

    The controversy began in January 2013 when the Kleins turned away Rachel Cryer and Laurel Bowman from their bakery, saying that providing a cake for their wedding would have violated their Christian beliefs against same-sex marriage.

    In August 2013, the women complained to the state Bureau of Labor and Industries. The agency conducted an investigation and in January 2014 brought charges that the Kleins had unlawfully discriminated against the couple because of their sexual orientation.

    Oregon law bans discrimination against gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people in jobs and in places that serve the public, such as restaurants and bakeries.

    BOLI investigators said the Kleins' refusal violated the women's civil rights and recommended they pay $75,000 in damages.

    That triggered a conciliation process between the two parties to see if a settlement could be reached. The Kleins and the state, acting on the women's behalf, could not agree, so the case went before McCullough, a BOLI administrative law judge.

    In rejecting the Kleins' claim for damages, McCullough said he lacked jurisdiction to grant or deny them, citing absence of legislative authority to do either.

    A hearing date was originally scheduled last October but was postponed until this March.

    At the March 10 hearing, the state has the burden of proving that the complainants were damaged by Aaron Klein's statement that his religious beliefs did not allow him to create a cake celebrating their wedding, Harmon noted.

    Avakian, as elected head of the labor bureau, has authority to issue a final order and uphold or adjust the amount of proposed damages. The commissioner's final order may be appealed to the Oregon Court of Appeals.

    Lawyers for the Kleins tried unsuccessfully last summer to remove Avakian from the proceedings on the grounds that he is biased in favor of gay rights.

    In the months after the case broke and garnered national attention, Sweet Cakes closed up shop on the edge of downtown Gresham, and the Kleins moved the business to their home.

    Herbert Grey, a Beaverton attorney representing the Kleins, said in a January 2014 interview that his clients "(are) being punished by the state of Oregon for refusing to participate in an event that the state of Oregon does not recognize."

    Cryer, 31, and Bowman, 30, now using Bowman-Cryer as their surname, held a commitment ceremony June 27, 2013. They were married May 23, 2014, four days after a federal judge ruled that same-sex marriage was legal in Oregon.


    -- George Rede

    grede@oregonian.com
    503-294-4004
    @georgerede
     
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  2. Jayla

    Jayla Ou ai-je l'esprit? Gold

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    Those gays really know how to throw a tony affair!
     
  3. The Snork

    The Snork Well-Known Member VIP Gold

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    They have a valid case.

    I hope the jury finds for them and awards them the amount they had to spend at another bakery and a queer $3 bill.
     
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  4. JameGumb

    JameGumb We're all out of toner!

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    I'm for queens getting married cause Wgas Wgaf. But the Baker was right on this. Fuck Oregon in their queer ass.
     
  5. rahboni

    rahboni Well-Known Member

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    I was going to get in a big discussion .....but fuck it. Quick hits?

    Bakery doesn't knuckle under. No money for grubbing, fake outrage assholes. Fuck you....money is not a function of your offense tally.

    Anybody suing for any reason within the construct of it being offensive to their beliefs is a *non-person*. I am sorry those that follow that scheme accept it as human behaviour. Sue me all you want for my opinion....I welcome it. When my opinion is cited...it better be cited as opinion...not fact.
     
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  6. N Copter

    N Copter Shot Dead Banned User

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    His business...his choice. If he wants to be a dope and turn down all that upper income gay money that is his decision.

    No different than an all womens gym as you stated earlier. No different than an all black group at a college.
     
  7. XXXXX

    XXXXX Well-Known Member

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    I think / fear that this type of litigation will become more and more common.

    So, it seems that some gay couples really wanted more than just the right to get married - just wait until churches start being sued for not performing gay marriages, on the grounds that it would violate the church's beliefs.

    Whatever happened to a business being able to reserve the right to refuse service?
     
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  8. boognishstern

    boognishstern Well-Known Member

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  9. N Copter

    N Copter Shot Dead Banned User

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    If that is so then how can other organizations exclude people? The womans gym has been used in this thread. Why are they different?

    I
     
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  10. boognishstern

    boognishstern Well-Known Member

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    agree wholeheartedly
     
  11. boognishstern

    boognishstern Well-Known Member

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    So Are "We Reserve the Right to Refuse Service to Anyone" Signs in Restaurants Legal?
    Yes, however they still do not give a restaurant the power to refuse service on the basis of race, color, religion, or natural origin. These signs also do not preclude a court from finding other arbitrary refusals of service to be discriminatory. Simply put, restaurants that carry a "Right to Refuse Service" sign are subject to the same laws as restaurants without one.

    bullshit
     
  12. N Copter

    N Copter Shot Dead Banned User

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    I'm not a lawyer but there must be some reason why some businesses can turn people away and some cannot. Maybe some Dawgshed lawyer in the morning will read.
     
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  13. Head Censor

    Head Censor Turgid Member VIP

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    Viewed in the abstract, strong arguments can be made on either side of this issue. On a practical level, however, I would say at the very least that our definition of a "public accommodation" has perhaps gotten a bit sloppier and more expansive than prudence would deem necessary.

    I also take issue with the ridiculous damages that are so often recommended in cases like this. To the extent that there are plenty of bakeries in Oregon that would have happily made a cake for this couple, I don't see how it's reasonable to effectively bankrupt a couple in the resolution of this dispute.
     
  14. FishySausage

    FishySausage Original Nuttah VIP Gold

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    why would you want someone angry with you and disapproving of your lifestyle making your wedding cake?
    Just give your business to someone else.
     
  15. KillVampires

    KillVampires Racist Banned User

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    Women's gyms are not exempt in some cities. In San Francisco and Houston their faggot mayors passed special "bathroom ordinances" where anyone who is "transgender" can use ANY bathroom or gym. So a man can take a piss in a women's bathroom if he says "oh I'm a woman on the inside".
     
  16. boognishstern

    boognishstern Well-Known Member

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    :artiejj:
    recockulous
     
  17. AllAboutHim Ed

    AllAboutHim Ed #mypurpose VIP

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    I am all for the gays getting legally married but fuck those two stupid cunts, the judge, and the state of Oregon for allowing this to happen. Rigoddamndiculous.
     
  18. Fa Fa Fruit Fly

    Fa Fa Fruit Fly Well-Known Member

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    People will come down on one side of this case or the other, mostly depending on whether they support gay marriage or not. But it's a bigger issue at stake, IMO.

    Why are the only criteria "race, color, religion or natural origin" (and WTF is natural origin anyway?). You can't control your race or your color (or your natural origin, I guess), but you can control your religion. So why are those the only criteria? Why isn't gender one of them? You can't control that. Nor can you control your physical appearance, for the most part. But you can control your political beliefs, how you dress, etc. So why is it unlawful to discriminate based on religion but it's OK to discriminate based on gender? That's fucked up. And if you can't discriminate based on religion, why not?

    As a private business, they should be able to do whatever they want. And they should suffer whatever loss of business that entails. A business that doesn't allow blacks or Chinese people isn't going to do very well these days.
     
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  19. cia212

    cia212 Well-Known Member VIP

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    Make the cake, just make it taste horrible and look like Robin's cunt.
     
  20. SouthernListen

    SouthernListen I don't follow the crowd. Sorry about that. VIP

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    Just think how much urine and shit is going to be in that cake batter if they're forced to make them a cake.
     
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