When ISPs Delete Data, Child Pornographers Can't Be Found

Discussion in 'The Bar' started by TYSON, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. TYSON

    TYSON New Member VIP

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    Many Internet service providers keep records of user behaviorâ€â€though not for long. The US government would, once again, like to change that by adopting some form of "data retention" requirement for ISPs. That's because, as Jason Weinstein of the Department of Justice put it today, "data retention is [now] fundamental to the Department’s work in investigating and prosecuting almost every type of crime."

    There's no call yet for specifics, though the US surely has its eye on the (controversial) European model: ISPs must hang onto logs for at least six months but no more than two years. These "logs" are huge databases that grow exponentially as more devices access the Internet and do so for longer periods of time; there's a reason most ISPs only hang onto this information for a few months right now. After that, it's simply deleted.

    That's great for privacy. It's less great for cops who are, say, investigating a serious felony that occurred 91 days ago only to find that their trail has hit a dead end because the data was deleted on day 90.


    Lurid examples

    Weinstein made this case to the House Judiciary Committee by way of an example:

    In a 2006 hearing before another committee in this House, an agent of the Wyoming Division of Criminal Investigation gave a heart-wrenching example of the harm that a lack of data retention can cause. He described how an undercover operation discovered a movie, depicting the rape of a two-year-old child that was being traded on a peer-to-peer file sharing network. Investigators were able to determine that the movie had first been traded four months earlier. So, investigators promptly sent a subpoena to the ISP that had first transmitted the video, asking for the name and address of the customer who had sent the video. The ISP reported that it didn’t have the records. Despite considerable effort, the child was not rescued and the criminals involved were not apprehended.

    John Douglass of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, who spoke next, had an example of his ownâ€â€this time a positive one of how important electronic data can be to an investigation.

    On July 26, 2006, 22 year old Tori Vienneau and her 10 month infant son, Dean were murdered in their 2 bedroom apartment in San Diego. Tori was found strangled in her living room and baby Dean was found strangled and hung from his crib in one of the adjoining bedrooms. This horrifying crime scene triggered an exhaustive 18 month investigation.

    The case was ultimately solved exclusively by the circumstantial evidence, including cell text message content and cell tower data from Verizon Wireless. The defendant denied any involvement in the killings and provided an intricate and extensive alibi.

    Investigators focused their attention on Dennis Potts almost immediately because he was rumored to have had dinner plans with Tori on the night of her murder. Mr. Potts denied these rumors of dinner plans and the victim’s cell phone was examined for any text messages between the two of them supporting/refuting such rumors. In a most interesting twist, all incoming and outgoing text messages prior to 6:30 pm on the night of the killings had been deleted. The victim’s cell phone provider was contacted, but the text message content was not stored by the cell provider and therefore could not be recovered that way. Over the ensuing months, the victim’s phone was subjected to extensive forensic analysis in the hopes of recovering some of these messages.

    The defendant’s cell phone carrier (Verizon Wireless) was also contacted and investigators were told incoming text message content (victim to defendant texts only) was preserved only for 3-5 days. In a stroke of good luck, this incoming data still existed and was preserved. It later proved to be pivotal in proving the defendant’s guilt. The text message content proved not only that the defendant lied to investigators and that the two did, in fact, have plans to meet that evening, but also that the defendant was checking to see if the victim and her son were alone in the apartment.

    Verizon also provided the cell tower data for the defendant’s phone. This data, coupled with some additional testing, showed that the defendant’s alibi was false and he was not where he said he was. Furthermore, at the time of the killings, his cell phone “pinged†off of a cell tower only 500 yards from the victim’s apartment. This became the single most important piece of evidence linking the defendant to the killings and to his ultimate conviction in September, 2009.

    Target or dragnet?

    ISPs and phone companies aren't overly excited by the idea of new retention rules. They say that they already work with investigators, and point out that police can ask at any time for a specific user's data to be preserved and it will be.

    Kate Dean, who represented ISPs at the hearing, made clear that her industry "has come to the understanding that a blanket legal requirement to retain Internet usage data for established time periods is certain to present significant challenges to the communications industry, both for well-established companies and newer online media enterprises, as well as unintended consequences which are incapable of precise identification."

    Instead, the ISPs could support "further opportunities to innovate around the preservation model" which targets specific users, rather than some requirement to store terabytes of information on every single subscriber.

    Congress hasn't yet proposed specific legislation in this area, but the hearing suggests some might be coming. John Morris of the Center for Democracy & Technology warned Congress about the privacy and free speech dangers of a lengthy retention mandate.

    "Mandatory data retention is a risky and costly path to go down," Morris concluded, "and one that is all the more problematic because once Congress opens the door to mandating that service providers amass huge tracking databases documenting citizensʼ Internet usage, it will be hard to close it. If Congress were to impose data retention on even just a narrow category of service providers, and even for a narrow category of crimes, there would be a strong and inevitable push to broaden the scope and reach of data retention. Congress should not cross this risky line."

    Source
     
  2. ohnoes

    ohnoes New Member Banned User

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    The "Raperiot Act" strikes again. Giving up more civil liberties to the NWO makes no sense. Pedophiles aren't flying planes into buildings. Let Detective Stabler deal with that shit. The internet is a microcosm of the real world. If your kid is willing to trust an adult stranger then they are most likely being neglected/unsupervised and some fucked up shit is going to happen to them sooner or later anyway.
     
  3. tomtom

    tomtom Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what you mean. Are you saying the only online pedophiles are trying to seduce preteens?
    There is a huge market for this shit unfortunately.
     
  4. GSD

    GSD Active Member

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    :facepalm: I deleted about 4 paragraphs and was just going to put See Snappy's post
     
  5. ohnoes

    ohnoes New Member Banned User

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    I'm saying that even the citizens who've been scared shitless and are willing to believe in Islamic boogeymen...giving up a lot of their basic freedoms for "protection" in the process should have enough sense not to equate some dude who wants to diddle a 12 year old with a terrorist. When does the government intusion end?
     
  6. nazdrowie

    nazdrowie Sultan of Sweat Gold

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  7. ohnoes

    ohnoes New Member Banned User

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    "He described how an undercover operation discovered a movie, depicting the rape of a two-year-old child that was being traded on a peer-to-peer file sharing network. Investigators were able to determine that the movie had first been traded four months earlier."

    As sick as shit like that is...there are other ways to track these scumbags down. Monitoring every keystroke will only lead to more censorship/regulation. Technology is the real mark of the beast.
     
  8. deverrant

    deverrant VIP Extreme Gold

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    How? I mean what are the "other ways" to track these scumbags down... if they're only doing it on cam and posting to the web. THAT is their one and only venue. There's no "paper trail". The web IS the trail. The only one. Is a two-year-old going to be able to speak up and defend him or herself? In a way that will stand up in court?

    The idea of monitoring of any kind makes me leery... but if information is already being saved for several weeks if not months, what is another several months? If it can bring ONE of these scumbags to justice, it's worth it, IMHO.
     
  9. MONK

    MONK The fuck? Staff Member Chimp In Charge

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    Bunch of wordy fucks in here. Shit SUCKS!
     
  10. deverrant

    deverrant VIP Extreme Gold

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    It's not our fault you can't read.
     
  11. ohnoes

    ohnoes New Member Banned User

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    I hear you Dev but a lot of this (as the article said specific targets may already be monitored) is going on already. This will only make it official. Give the government carte blanche to pick every aspect of our lives apart. Is that worth a few baby rapers getting locked up? There has always been evil in the world...always will be. Some of us are a little older and remember a world before cyber cops, forensics, dna and all of this shit. A time where you could start over with a clean slate if you fucked up...as long as you had some brains and were willing to make an effort. We're slowly being transformed into barcoded automatons.
     
  12. MONK

    MONK The fuck? Staff Member Chimp In Charge

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    I read less in College than the shit posted in this thread. :shmoop:
     
  13. deverrant

    deverrant VIP Extreme Gold

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    YES. It is. "Baby rape" is not shoplifting. It's not vandalism, smoking weed or any petty crime. This is the kind of shit that is not only horrific beyond the extent of the imagination, but this is the kind of shit that MAKES terrorists and other criminals when the children who have experienced it grow up to be fucked up teenagers and adults.

    Committing crimes against children is not simply "fucking up". It's not holding up a convenience store or selling some pot. It's reprehensible in all aspects and those who commit such crimes against an innocent child do not deserve a "clean slate" or the chance to "make an effort". Fuck that. I'll give up some of my privacy (because I've got nothing to hide in the first place) to bring just ONE of these sick fucks to justice.
     
  14. ohnoes

    ohnoes New Member Banned User

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    The "fucking up" thing I was attributing to regular citizens. I'm not saying you should be able to fuck a two year old (unless you live in Africa :jj:) and get a pass for it. I'm saying for every baby raper, serial killer etc. who gets caught hundreds of thousands (if not millions) will have their quality of life diminished/opportunities denied them behind this big brother (minor criminal history, family and medical history, credit score, sexual proclivities, groups affiliated with etc.) shit. It's 21st century eugenics. Don't you get it?
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011
  15. deverrant

    deverrant VIP Extreme Gold

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    I do. And all I'M saying is that if they're already saving our info for a few months, what's the difference if they save it for a few more, if it means even ONE baby-raper is brought down because of it? I know there are countless more where that came from. But if ONE is caught, and maybe a few others are deterred, that's worth it to me.
     
  16. ohnoes

    ohnoes New Member Banned User

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    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree Dev. No biggie.

    Are you getting a lot of snow there? I just shoveled a few hours ago and there's almost a fucking foot out there now. It's supposed (according to the forecast) be tailing off now but it still looks as heavy as ever. I was gonna just wait until whenever I got up tomorrow but now it's looking like I'll have to make another trip outside before I turn in. :shitfit:
     
  17. deverrant

    deverrant VIP Extreme Gold

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    We've got a bunch. Still going too.
    I'm hoping for a snow day tomorrow. :D
     
  18. ohnoes

    ohnoes New Member Banned User

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    You'll get it. I know there'll be no trains or anything running here in the next couple of hours.

    I've resigned myself to defeat. I'll just make a path (I usually clear the whole sidewalk) clear the steps and the driveway. Fuck it, I'm too drunk to shovel now. Besides, it's supposed to snow Friday and Saturday too. This winter sucks.
     
  19. tomtom

    tomtom Well-Known Member

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    Myself I don't care if they track me, they will get bored quick and move onto another person.